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The Hallowed Mouse

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:39 pm


I just wanted to post arguments for various situations that can be found

ProLife America

for you new pro-life persons or need a position statement!



Have any you want posted? PM me the argument, I WILL find one!
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:40 pm


The issue is who decides, the woman or the state. It’s about freedom of choice.

The abortion lobby has always realized that abortion itself is indefensible. This has forced them to argue that whether abortion is the deliberate killing of a living human being or not, is unrelated to the question of whether it should be legal. In short, they have to divert attention toward the philosophical concepts of “choice” and “who decides” because they can’t afford for the public to look at what’s being chosen and decided.

To imply that the issue is not abortion, but choice, is to say that what’s being chosen is irrelevant. That is clearly illogical given that all choices are not equal. Choosing whether to buy a new car is vastly different than choosing whether to produce child pornography, and the morality of those choices is not affected by the eventual decision. However, the pro-choice position is that abortion becomes acceptable simply by the act of choosing to do it.

Defenders of slavery also used this same strategy. During the 1858 Abraham Lincoln- Stephen Douglas debates, Douglas said he did not support outlawing slavery, saying, “I am now speaking of rights under the Constitution, and not of moral or religious rights. I do not discuss the morals of the people favoring slavery, but let them settle that matter for themselves. I hold that the people who favor slavery are civilized, that they bear consciences, and that they are accountable to God and their posterity and not to us. It is for them to decide therefore the moral and religious right of the slavery question for themselves within their own limits.”

Just substitute the word abortion every place the word slavery appears, and this statement perfectly defines the pro-choice position in America today. Lincoln’s response to Douglas’ pro-choice position on slavery was, “He cannot say that he would as soon see a wrong voted up as voted down. When Judge Douglas says whoever, or whatever community, wants slaves, they have a right to them, he is perfectly logical if there is nothing wrong in the institution; but if you admit that it is wrong, he cannot logically say that anybody has a right to do a wrong.”

Lincoln recognized that there is nothing intrinsically noble about the concept of choice, and that there are choices which a society cannot allow the individual to make.

The fact is, before one can rightly claim that the issue is “choice” or “who decides,” he or she must first examine what’s being chosen. If it’s what color shoes to wear, that’s one thing; if it’s whether to kill another human being, that’s another. Except in self-defense, the decision about whether one human being can kill another one cannot be left up to the individual who wants to do the killing.

Besides, this “who decides, the woman or the state” rhetoric is idiotic on its face. Laws against abortion would not let the state decide who gets abortions any more than laws against rape let the state decide who gets raped. Instead, they establish that certain behaviors are so unacceptable they must be illegal.

Finally, as used by abortion advocates, the term “pro-choice” is both inaccurate and dishonest. In an abortion, at least three people are directly impacted: the mother, the father, and the child. The pro-choice argument is that only one is entitled to a choice. Additionally, it has never been a part of their agenda to protect any choice other than abortion. They don’t lobby for women to have the legal right to be prostitutes or use crack cocaine. Yet these laws, and thousands of others, deny women “the right to choose” just as much as laws preventing abortion would.

The Hallowed Mouse


The Hallowed Mouse

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:43 pm


If a baby is not a white, healthy, newborn it stands little chance of being adopted.

The National Counsel for Adoption says that while there is indeed a long waiting list for healthy white babies, there are also parents on waiting lists for minority and physically challenged babies. This is confirmed by Christian Homes and Special Kids, a non-profit organization founded to support families with special-needs children. At any given time, they have a database of several hundred families waiting to adopt children with even the most severe physical challenges, including children who are terminal and those who are born addicted to drugs. The truth is, the chances of a newborn not being adopted are minuscule regardless of circumstances.

Today, the problem with adoption is not babies, but older children, and since they are already born that problem has nothing to do with abortion. The abortion lobby counters that if newborns are not available, families would be more likely to adopt these older children. In other words, the pro-choice solution is to force people to take the children society wants them to adopt, by brutally slaughtering the children they want to adopt.

If the abortion lobby wants us to believe that they are only killing babies no one wants, here is a suggestion that will settle the whole abortion debate once and for all. Let’s create a national computer database of people who want to adopt a baby. Any pregnant woman who doesn’t want her baby would have access to this database. If there is someone in the database who wants to adopt her baby, she could not legally have an abortion. But if no one is willing to take her baby, she could legally have the child killed by abortion.

Of course, the abortion industry is never going to take this deal because they know it would immediately bankrupt every one of their death camps. They realize that there is no such thing as an unwanted baby and that every single child they butcher is wanted by someone. Their “every child a wanted child” rhetoric, and this “disease of unwantedness,” are simply scams they conjured up to justify abortion and create a market for their product.


Keep in mind I'm not racist, it's just what it says
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:45 pm


Why don’t you help people who are already here, like the homeless?

First, unborn children are already here. If that were not the case, there would be nothing to kill. Second, there are about 3,000 crisis pregnancy centers in America, each funded and staffed by the pro-life movement and each providing its services free of charge. Third, when pro-life groups solicit money to finance these centers, our biggest problem is that almost every pro-lifer we approach is also contributing to other organizations whose sole purpose is to help people.

This claim that pro-lifers only care about abortion is an outright lie. However, let’s assume that no pro-lifer anywhere in the world is involved in even one effort to help other people. What does that have to do with our efforts to keep the pro-choice mob from killing every baby they can get their hands on? Where is it written that when someone tries to prevent innocent human beings from being butchered, they are responsible for solving all the world’s social problems? If a man tries to stop a poor child from being murdered in a drive-by shooting, do we say it’s none of his business unless he has a plan to end poverty?

There is a legal group called the Innocence Project which represents prisoners who claim they were falsely convicted. They have been successful in numerous instances where they were able to prove that a man was on death row for a murder he didn’t commit.

When they are trying to save the life of a condemned prisoner who may be innocent, should they be told to butt out unless they are doing something about homelessness, child abuse, hunger, and all of the world’s other social problems? As ridiculous as that sounds, that is precisely what the pro-choice crowd says about abortion. They say that unless the pro-life movement can solve all the problems an unborn girl might face in her life, then we have no right to keep them from killing her.

The reality is, when the choice is between helping people who have no place to live or helping people who are being butchered by the millions, we have to choose the latter.

However, if the pro-choice crowd is so concerned about homelessness, they have the power to end it anytime they want to. All they have to do is pick out one homeless person and take him home. Since there are more abortion advocates than homeless people, this would end the problem instantly, without controversy and without tax money. In fact, they could use this “adult adoption” plan to eliminate hunger, poverty, unemployment or any other social problem.

Of course, the pro-choice crowd is never going to go for this. Their only interest in the homeless, or the poor, or the unemployed, or the hungry, or any other disadvantaged group is to use them as a skirt to hide behind so they don’t have to defend abortion.

The Hallowed Mouse


The Hallowed Mouse

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:46 pm


There are more abortions than people waiting to adopt. What do we do after these people have gotten a baby?

This assumes that once abortion is illegal every woman with an unplanned pregnancy will place her baby for adoption. That is clearly not true, given that even the most unwanted pregnancies do not automatically produce unwanted babies.

This issue also erroneously assumes that the people on waiting lists to adopt would only adopt one child. If the supply of babies increased, the cost of adoption would go down and most of these people would jump at the chance to adopt more than one child. Also, the reduced cost of adoption would increase the number of lower and middle income families who could adopt. Other factors that increase the pool of potential adoptive parents is the growing problem of infertility, and the fact that there is now less stigma attached to single parent adoptions.
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:48 pm


It’s the woman’s body. It’s her decision.

First, it is nonsense to suggest that the law never tells people what they can or cannot do with their bodies. In fact, there are many things which people are not legally allowed to do with their bodies. To name just a few, they cannot sell them for sex, or sell their organs to people who need transplants, or put certain drugs into their bodies.

Second, statements like this ignore the fact that, by any rational standard, the unborn child is a separate individual from its mother.

In fact, if an unborn child had the ability to commit a crime, it has everything necessary for a forensic expert to identify it in court. Long before the point at which most abortions are done, the unborn child has its own DNA code, its own fingerprints, and its own blood type – none of which match the mother.

The individuality of the unborn was evident in 1999 when a Tennessee surgeon had just completed an operation on an unborn baby and was about to close the incision in the mom’s abdomen. Before he could do so, the child punched his arm through the incision and grasped the doctor’s finger. A photo of this event ended up on magazine covers and television sets around the world. The question is, who grabbed the doctor’s finger?

The Hallowed Mouse


The Hallowed Mouse

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:49 pm


The government has no right to interfere in people’s personal choices.

To say that government should let people make all of their own choices is neither practical nor desirable. We cannot let people make their own choices to rape, rob or drive drunk. We cannot let them make the choices to embezzle, defraud, write hot checks, drive their cars over the speed limit, slander other people, etc. By definition, the goal of every law is to deny someone the legal ability to choose a particular activity, and many prohibited choices could even be considered “personal.” For example, it is illegal to have sexual relations with a sibling, or a child, or an animal, or a dead body.

As for abortion, it is not the government’s role to protect one individual’s choice to kill his fellow human beings. Given the biological fact that the unborn are living human beings, the question is not whether the government has the right to prohibit abortion, but whether it has the right not to.
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:50 pm


The government has an obligation to fund abortions for poor women.

On one hand, the abortion lobby says that abortion is a private decision in which the government has no right to be involved. Then, they demand that the government pay for abortions and force even pro-life taxpayers to buy abortions for other people. They defend this obvious hypocrisy by pointing out that government often requires taxpayers to pay for things with which they disagree. For example, people opposed to war have to pay taxes which fund the military.

However, the abortion lobby’s position is that government has no right to even be involved in the abortion issue. So why should government pay for something which the recipients of those funds say is none of the government’s business? After all, if we concluded that national defense was none of the government’s business, we would not use tax money to buy jet fighters.

Also, just because someone has a right to do something doesn’t mean the government has to pay for it. Americans have the right to own guns, but the government doesn’t provide free pistols to poor people. We have a right to free speech, but the government doesn’t buy public address systems for poor people. We are also guaranteed freedom of religion, but the government has no obligation to purchase Bibles for poor churches.

The Hallowed Mouse


The Hallowed Mouse

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:52 pm


I’d rather pay $300 for a welfare mom’s abortion than thousands to raise her kid.

Few issues speak more clearly about the immorality of the pro-choice mentality than the argument that abortion should be used to save us tax money. Imagine that the two-year-old daughter of a family on welfare fell into an abandoned well. Authorities calculate that since a funeral is cheaper than a rescue, and since this little girl might be on welfare for the rest of her life, the financially sound thing to do is just flood the well with water. Once the child floats to the top, the coroner can scoop up her body, have it buried, and the taxpayers will have saved a bundle. That is obviously a monstrous idea, but it is no more so than telling poor women that if they will kill their children to save us money, we’ll pay the killer.

Now if America is serious about having a social policy based on the philosophy that it’s cheaper to execute a child than support one, then we should start encouraging families on welfare to not only kill their unborn children, but their born children as well. Remember, the guiding principle here is not morality but saving money. If we are willing to ignore the biological fact that their unborn children are living human beings, why should we care that their born children are living human beings?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:54 pm


Abortion is about empowering women.

If you want to see the weakest and most subservient women in America, just look at the faces of those entering an abortion clinic. What you will see is sadness, desperation, fear, and resignation. What you will not see is women who feel empowered or in control.

These faces make it clear that, like suicide, abortion is a choice made by tragic people who have been convinced they have no choice. Better than anyone else, women who submit to abortion understand why no woman was ever admired for having an abortion, and why no woman ever bragged about her abortion, and why no woman ever climbed off an abortionist’s table with a higher opinion of herself than she had when she climbed onto it.

This nonsense that women must have the right to kill their children in order to be equal to men is an invention of the abortion industry. With almost no exceptions, pioneers of the women’s movement like Susan B. Anthony, Mattie Brinkerhoff, Sarah Norton, Emma Goldman, and Elizabeth Cady Stanton were outspoken opponents of legal abortion. Alice Paul, who wrote the original Equal Rights Amendment, called abortion the ultimate exploitation of women. Even suffragist newspapers such as Woodhull’s and Claflin’s Weekly, had editorial policies which openly attacked both abortion and abortionists.

These early feminists saw that abortion is patronizing and paternalistic and that a woman’s willingness to submit to it doesn’t free her, it devalues her. They understood that legalized abortion is nothing more than a safety net for sexually predatory and sexually irresponsible men. Today, after over 30 years of legalized abortion, that view has been so thoroughly proven true that some abortion advocates no longer even bother to deny it. In fact, some say it should be celebrated.

On May 11, 1990, the PBS radio program Spectrum featured the staunchly pro-choice Ann Taylor-Flemming saying, “I came of age with the women’s movement. It has given license to my ambitions and dreams, and filled me with the fervor for equality that permeates all that I do. But this time, I want to turn the tables a bit. Take an issue that always seems like a women’s issue and pitch it directly towards the men out there. And that issue is abortion... it’s time now to invite the men of America back in, to ask them to raise their voices for choice... I dare say that many of them have impregnated women along the way, and then let off the hook in a big, big way – emotionally, economically and every other way – when the women went ahead and had abortions... the sense of relief for themselves was mixed with sympathy for and gratitude towards those women whose ultimate responsibility it was to relieve them of responsibility by having abortions... it would sure be nice to hear from all those men out there whose lives have been changed, bettered, and substantially eased because they were not forced into unwanted fatherhood.”

It is hard to imagine that even the most bigoted male chauvinist would suggest that women have a responsibility to let men who impregnate them “off the hook” by submitting to abortion. Yet here is that very argument being espoused by someone who claims to be an advocate for women.

Today, abortion apologists continue to push the idea that having a clean place to kill their babies is the cornerstone of women’s equality. That lie is a self-serving perversion of the basic values of legitimate feminism. As pro-life feminist Melissa Simmons-Tulin once said, “Women will never climb to equality over the dead bodies of their children.”

The Hallowed Mouse


The Hallowed Mouse

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:55 pm


What about a woman who can’t afford another child or isn’t ready to be a mom?

To begin with, when a woman is pregnant whether she is ready or not, she already is a mom. At that point, her only “choice” is to be the mother of a living baby or a dead one.

Second, poverty is not a justification for killing your children. No one would excuse a father for killing his five-year-old daughter because he could no longer afford her.

Additionally, the abortion industry’s own statistics prove that almost every abortion it sells has nothing to do with poverty, but is instead sold to a woman who simply doesn’t want to be pregnant.

An interesting observation about the relationship between poverty and abortion, is that poor women are rarely the ones agitating for abortion. Instead, it always seems to be rich, white, elitist gadflies and liberal social engineers who become so distressed about poor women having access to abortion.
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:56 pm


Why should a woman who is acting responsibly be forced into motherhood just because her birth control failed?

The idea that when someone is “acting responsibly” they should be immune from consequences is nonsense. Even when people are driving their cars responsibly, they can still get into accidents and they are still responsible for the damage they do. In the case of sexual activity, acting responsibly goes beyond just taking steps to avoid pregnancy. It is also accepting – before having sex – that a child may be conceived. Abortion is about letting people avoid this part of their responsibility.

Also, if women should not be forced to take on the responsibilities of having a child simply because their birth control failed, do we extend this same option to men? If a man was “acting responsibly” by using a condom and his partner was “acting responsibly” by using birth control, if a pregnancy results and he offers to pay for an abortion, should we say that he has fulfilled his legal obligations? This is especially relevant given that if she decides to abort he is legally powerless to stop her, but if she doesn’t abort he can be forced to pay for a child whose intentional execution he could not legally prevent. If abortion is about equal rights – as the pro-choice gang claims – how can “forced fatherhood” be right if “forced motherhood” is wrong?

The Hallowed Mouse


The Hallowed Mouse

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:58 pm


Abortion is a women’s issue. Men have no right to even be involved.

First, people who think men have no right to be involved in the abortion issue should be careful what they ask for. Polls consistently find that women oppose abortion at a higher rate than men, they are more opposed to government funding of abortion, more active in the pro-life movement, and are more likely to favor banning abortion outright. It is abundantly clear that if men were excluded, support for abortion would plummet.

Second, men don’t need to be given the right to speak out against abortion, they already have a responsibility to do so. Real men don’t just stand around with their hands in their pockets while helpless children are slaughtered for money. Third, the pro-choice crowd never tells men who support legal abortion to keep quiet, and they have never said that the 1973 Supreme Court had no right to be involved in the Roe v. Wade decision, despite the fact every member was male.

They also don’t seem to mind that the overwhelming majority of abortionists are men, and they never say anything about the male “escorts” outside the abortion mills or even the men who force women into having abortions. Evidently, the only men these people want to be censored are those who think women deserve better than abortion.

Finally, if the argument is that men shouldn’t be allowed to participate simply because they can’t get pregnant, what about women who can’t get pregnant? Should only young, sexually active, fertile women who are not practicing birth control be allowed to have an opinion about abortion?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:01 pm


I am against abortion but I look at all the issues. Besides, most political offices have nothing to do with abortion.

For people who believe that abortion is murder, a candidate’s position on other issues is irrelevant. The slaughter of children cannot be equated to any other social, cultural or political issue. It is also irrelevant that most political offices have no impact on abortion. If a candidate is a member of the Ku Klux Klan, voters will not ignore that just because the office he is seeking has no impact on racial issues. That dynamic also applies in this case. People who support legalized abortion are not morally qualified to serve in any public office.

It is interesting to note that the number of people killed during the terrorists attacks on the World Trade Center is virtually the same as the number of unborn children killed daily in America’s death camps. In other words, for the unborn every day is 9/11. If the rest of us were being hit like that, no one would be saying that there are other issues to consider.

The Hallowed Mouse


The Hallowed Mouse

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:02 pm


Millions of children are already starving.

Of the more than 3,000 American children slaughtered every day by abortion, the percentage who would have lived in hunger is tiny and the number who would have one day starved to death is, for all practical purposes, zero. The children who are starving in this world live almost exclusively in third-world nations with corrupt political regimes who sometimes starve their people on purpose, and in countries with inefficient farming techniques and poor food distribution systems. We could kill every unborn child in America for the next 50 years and it would not solve any of those problems or provide a single bite of food for even one starving child.

Besides, if bloodshed is the solution to hunger, it doesn’t make sense to kill the unborn. We should be killing adults since they eat more. We could save even more food by establishing a pre-set age at which we have determined that the elderly take more calories out of the food chain than the amount of good they do for society. When someone reaches that age, we would simply “put them down” and take the food they would have eaten for ourselves. Given that abortion clinics are already set-up for this sort of thing, expanding their services to include the elderly would be easy and highly profitable. The government might even be willing to kick in a few tax dollars since killing these folks would be considerably cheaper than keeping them on Medicare and Social Security.
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The Pro-life Guild

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