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Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:24 pm
This dude is trying to compare Greek/Roman mythology to Christianity and prove how they are similar. However, what he is trying to actually prove is how Christianity is unoriginal. I'm not saying to defend Christianty; You dont need to do that. However, if you want to put your knowledge of Greek/Roman history to good use in the ED, this would be a good time to use it wink I've already posted in it with my two cents on the subject.
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:32 pm
Ok, here's the thing.
Christianity WAS very merged with the state cult, along with Isis and Mythras.
Early Christianity developed parallels with polytheistic religions of the Roman state, emerged and evolved into the christianity we have today.
Therefore, christianity... isn't original.
I will get into this more later.
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In media res Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:57 pm
Ariadnae Ok, here's the thing. Christianity WAS very merged with the state cult, along with Isis and Mythras. Early Christianity developed parallels with polytheistic religions of the Roman state, emerged and evolved into the christianity we have today. Therefore, christianity... isn't original. I will get into this more later. It's not that it isn't original, it's that he's comparing Christianity to Greek/Roman mythology. Literally, one of his arguments is that the Christian God looks alot like Zeus. Can't you find a flaw in that argument?
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:09 pm
There is absolutely no way that the christian God is like Zeus.
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In media res Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 2:58 pm
Ariadnae Ok, here's the thing. Christianity WAS very merged with the state cult, along with Isis and Mythras. Early Christianity developed parallels with polytheistic religions of the Roman state, emerged and evolved into the christianity we have today. Therefore, christianity... isn't original. I will get into this more later. The connection between early Christianity and the Mythraeism is a strained one at best. That whole argument kinda got debunked in the '70s. I'll admit that the whole "stomping out of the cave with torches in each hand" thingy looks similar to the story of Jesus' ressurection, but eh... yeah. I'm not seeing a lot of similarities in culture or values. Without some kind of massive chartable movement, I have trouble buying the merger. The bulk of the similarities between Roman religion and Christianity we owe to St. Augustine (354-430 C.E.obviously sainted by vote of the college of cardinals after he died. I'm fairly certain that he was sainted in 460 C.E., but don't quote me on that) who was a stoic turned Christian that never really finished converting. He wrote at length about the divine, though the lens of stoicism, and it was accepted by the bulk of Christian culture as good (because, hell, Roman influence sounded good to people who lived around them for three centuries.) The remainder comes from the quasi-merger of Christian and Roman culture when Constantine I announced "tolerance" for Christianity (i.e. absorption of the Christian God into the pantheon of Gods, so there were definately people giving hearty "Hurrah for Yaweh"s after that.) Trick is that it was a merger on the Roman side, not the Christian side. Christians kept with their belief that the Roman pantheon was idolitry. Mixing of cultures, mixing of values, (especially post-Augustine) but not so much merger with the cult.
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 3:29 pm
Ariadnae There is absolutely no way that the christian God is like Zeus. My point exactly. Now go get 'em tiger!
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Harvested Sorrow Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:21 pm
I'd say the connections were more with the Roman mystery cults than any of the more well known pantheon or with Greek influences. That said, I saw the thread, and it was a bit...odd.
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:04 am
Zelknolf The bulk of the similarities between Roman religion and Christianity we owe to St. Augustine (354-430 C.E.obviously sainted by vote of the college of cardinals after he died. I'm fairly certain that he was sainted in 460 C.E., but don't quote me on that) who was a stoic turned Christian that never really finished converting. Actually, prior to the conversion of Christianity, Augustine was a Manichee, that is, from Manichaenism (formed by Mani, influenced by the Mandaeanism) unorthodox form of Christianity bent on dualism.
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:26 pm
Ok, then, the devil's pitchfork? Posiden. Similaritys of the was the christain god looks like Zeus? Moses floating down the river? Christainity was based off the pagan belif, but tweeked.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:33 pm
MissingxParts Ok, then, the devil's pitchfork? Posiden. Similaritys of the was the christain god looks like Zeus? Moses floating down the river? Christainity was based off the pagan belif, but tweeked. The devil's pitchfork isn't really a big part of Christianity; it's more like a folk tale associated with it. And what exactly does the Christian God look like again? Moses in the river is actually a Jewish tale, shared by Christianity. I accept that there are many similarities between Christianity and other religions, but not that Christianity was deliberately fabricated out of pieces from other religions.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:48 pm
The Christian God? I don't think it states any place in the bible what he looks like. I mean, sure, ever since I was a child I pictured him as an old man but er... that's because that's how he's drawn. On top of that, forgive me, but, Yahweh acts like he has PMS. A REALLY bad case of it. And possibly a few mental diseases mixed in with the way HE acts. (if you don't have time to read the bible, go look at The Brick Testament, you'll laugh your a** off, and get LEGO versions of the bible. xd It even makes it sexy in some places!) One minute "You're TOTALLY my chosen people! I love you!" The next? "Moses, get the ******** out of the way, I'm going to kill them all." I don't recall Zeus doing anything like that... Now, on to Constantine. *twitches* I don't like him too much... Nicene Creed anyone? I mean, ********, take a look at CATHOLIC religion.... "We have someone for you to pray to for EVERY problem you have. Constipation?! I'm sure we have a saint you can pray to!" No offense to ANYONE meant.... my Grandpa was raised Catholic, my Mom and Aunt's catholic-baptist, I wound up with a mix of all of those, and wound up non-denominational. (I adore St.Francis.) Grandpa didn't like Catholic church because there were too many damned rules. xd (he's a buddhist now.) So despite the way I speak I have nothing against any of the religions listed. Ugh, head hurts. Too tired to go on. Just look up Sol Invictus, and, Mithras. Edited to Add: Christianity has also been molded to what was popular at the time. It was a JEWISH sect. In fact, I know a few Jewish Christians. Paul was the one who, while he did not work/get taught by Yeshua, came along and wrote about it, and, the actual people who were TAUGHT by Yeshua got rather pissed at him. They actually had a fight, I think it's mentioned someplace in the bible. What was the fight over? Paul claimed you didn't have to be circumcised, you didn't need to follow the Jewish rules. Yeshua/Jesus NEVER taught that. In fact, he never ONCE told them to stop living as Jewish people. :/ So this religion has had things added to, by whatever will work best to get people to join, from what I've seen. Wiki on early Christianity
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:19 pm
Pixie-elf Just look up Sol Invictus, and, Mithras. Things like the virgin birth were probably a coincidence, things like the Dec. 25th birthday were probably added to Christianity to make conversion easier. Quote: Edited to Add: Christianity has also been molded to what was popular at the time. It was a JEWISH sect. In fact, I know a few Jewish Christians. Paul was the one who, while he did not work/get taught by Yeshua, came along and wrote about it, and, the actual people who were TAUGHT by Yeshua got rather pissed at him. They actually had a fight, I think it's mentioned someplace in the bible. What was the fight over? Paul claimed you didn't have to be circumcised, you didn't need to follow the Jewish rules. Yeshua/Jesus NEVER taught that. In fact, he never ONCE told them to stop living as Jewish people. :/ So this religion has had things added to, by whatever will work best to get people to join, from what I've seen. Wiki on early ChristianityWhere in the Bible was that fight? I don't remember reading about it. But Jesus did defy the Jewish law in order to obey the more important laws, i.e. working on the Sabbath. He also shared his knowledge with a Gentile woman at a well and discussed the importance of loving all humans, not just Jews, with the parable of the good Samaritan. So when Paul claimed that God had told him that the Jewish laws weren't important anymore, this wasn't exactly unprecedented.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:50 pm
I'll try to refrase somethings. People try to smear old traditions by bring in new ones (mainly the church). The smaear old pratices. Dec. 25 was a cover of the wiccan holiday Yule. Just about every holiday was a cover. Realating back, I personaly believe that Christanity was a cover of other religons. (Doesn't Moose and Kristaina have striking similarites in stories? I mean, they both were sent down a river to be saved.)
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:23 pm
sheepofdarkness Pixie-elf Just look up Sol Invictus, and, Mithras. Things like the virgin birth were probably a coincidence, things like the Dec. 25th birthday were probably added to Christianity to make conversion easier. Quote: Edited to Add: Christianity has also been molded to what was popular at the time. It was a JEWISH sect. In fact, I know a few Jewish Christians. Paul was the one who, while he did not work/get taught by Yeshua, came along and wrote about it, and, the actual people who were TAUGHT by Yeshua got rather pissed at him. They actually had a fight, I think it's mentioned someplace in the bible. What was the fight over? Paul claimed you didn't have to be circumcised, you didn't need to follow the Jewish rules. Yeshua/Jesus NEVER taught that. In fact, he never ONCE told them to stop living as Jewish people. :/ So this religion has had things added to, by whatever will work best to get people to join, from what I've seen. Wiki on early ChristianityWhere in the Bible was that fight? I don't remember reading about it. But Jesus did defy the Jewish law in order to obey the more important laws, i.e. working on the Sabbath. He also shared his knowledge with a Gentile woman at a well and discussed the importance of loving all humans, not just Jews, with the parable of the good Samaritan. So when Paul claimed that God had told him that the Jewish laws weren't important anymore, this wasn't exactly unprecedented. Fight isn't the exact right word, more like disagreement. Copied from Wiki "The early Jewish Christians included those who believed non-Jews must become Jews and adopt Jewish customs. They were derogatively called Judaizers, and even Paul used this term against Jesus's student Peter in public (Gal 2:14). However, Barnabas, Paul's partner up till then, sided with Peter (Gal 2:13, Acts 15:39-40). Catholic Encyclopedia: Judaizers: The Incident at Antioch claims: "St. Paul's account of the incident leaves no doubt that St. Peter saw the justice of the rebuke." however, L. Michael White's From Jesus to Christianity[4] claims: "The blowup with Peter was a total failure of political bravado, and Paul soon left Antioch as persona non grata, never again to return." See also Pauline Christianity." There also appears to be possibly more friction in Galatians, from what I recall from books. There's also one book, at least, talking about how Paul, more than likely was NOT a Pharisee. The new testament badmouthed them like crazy, when they preached things that were VERY similar to Christ.
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:33 pm
MissingxParts Ok, then, the devil's pitchfork? Posiden. Similaritys of the was the christain god looks like Zeus? Moses floating down the river? Christainity was based off the pagan belif, but tweeked. May I ask, Did you ever personally see the Devil? If you did, why don't you share your experiences? Can you testify that he is actually carrying a three pronged fork? There is no part of Christianity that specifically says the Devil carries a pitchfork. Greek Myths mention Posiedon's pitchfork, but the Devil has nothing to do with it. Just like people see painted "cherubs" that represent Cupid, but myths mention him as a young, age 20-25 year old man. He is not a baby just becuase people paint him that way, is he? So how is the Devil a red skinned, pointy horned, pitchfork carrying demon with a pointed tail? Did anyone see this? Does the Christian Bible say this? ACTUALLY, the bible mentions Satan as the most beautiful of the angels. (more on this later) On the topic that God looks like Zeus, has anyone actually seen GOD? Has anyone actually seen ZEUS? The only depictions are artist's impressions. You can't SEE a black hole. But artists have drawn their impressions of it. That does not mean that black holes HAVE to look like the artist's impression. The main point of Moses' story was not the fact that he floated down the river, amazing as that would seem. It is trying to IMPRESS the fact that the all-providing God will save you from whatever dangers reside. It is not only a LITERAL story, but a METAPHORICAL one. Most people only have a superficial view on Christianity. They look at the Roman Catholic church, or Christmas and Easter. Christmas and Easter aren't celebrated by some Christians, because it is just pagan holidays renamed. In fact, many of the people that do celebrate Christmas aren't even CHRISTIAN!!! Easter is even more paganized. When was the Easter Bunny mentioned in the Bible? Where does it mention the symbolic meaning of PAINTED EGGS? Nowhere!! It is not based on the pagan "belif", nor is it "tweeked". It is just that some forms of Christianity are tainted by the sinful world. Continuing with the "angels", I believe that most angels are not the beautiful, winged, haloed seraphs we see on Christmas Cards. Based on the fact that every angel always says "Do not be afraid," before anything else, what impression does that give you of it's appearance? You tell me.
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