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Time Paradox, Grandfather paradox.

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yukiine

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:56 pm


I wanted to discuss a few things about (See title).

1. If somone were to theoretically freeze time [Reference "The twilight zone" Episode where somone gets a time stop watch, breaks it, thus freezes time] what would happen? My hypothesis is that, if on the timeline, time was frozen and in no point in the future timeline it were to be started, i think nature would intervene and start it up again.

2. Personal timelines? Reference the twilight zone ^ and think; Does the man have a seperate timeline? He should age if he is still moving, but for everyone else, it would be something under a nanosecond. So does everyone have a personal timeline?

3. What Theorum do you trust to be the prime theorum of time travel and the grandfather paradox? Myself, i think that Igor Dmitriyevich Novikov's self-consistancey principal is the prime one.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:10 pm


Some things you might want to consider:

What do you mean by time freezing? It would only be able to freeze from an outside perspective, as everything that is affected by time freezing has itself frozen and is thus unable to observe anything after the point of freezing. Similarly, if all time were frozen, then how would nature, an intrinsically time-dependent entity, be able to do anything at all, much less restart time?

Then we come to the question of how anything would be able to observe the frozen time. QM teaches us that observation requires interaction with the object being observed, but if said object is frozen in time, then how can it interact with anything?

Also, "freezing time" would only be possible in a single reference frame, since Special Relativity teaches us that simultaneity is not a well-defined concept when one passes through reference frames, so if one person sees object A and object B being frozen at the same time (which I assume would be the case), another person in another reference frame would see the freezing of A and the freezing of B happening at different times.

In terms of personal timelines, perhaps they are possible (although I fail to see why anything above a single particle in size would continue on as a unit), but anything with a personal timeline would die instantly, as life requires constant interaction with the outside world, which, as postulated, is frozen and thus unable to interact.

As for the grandfather paradox, I direct you to here.

Layra-chan
Crew


Pizopizopizo

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:09 pm


exactly why i think time travel is impossible. (because of grandfather paradox)
just out of curiosity, scientifically, why do people think its possible? (im one of those newbies in science that dont know anything so bear with me...)
does it have anything to do with the tiny dimensions talked about in quantum mechanics?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:50 am


There are solutions to the General Relativity equations that allow for closed timelike paths, i.e. regions where time goes in a circle. Theoretically one could use such a path to go backward in time.
Of course, there is the problem that the most prominent of these regions with closed timelike paths happens to be part of a black-hole solution, so anything would get sucked into the black hole and be unable to escape.

Also, quantum mechanics doesn't say anything about tiny dimensions; you're thinking of string theory, which says a lot of things but none of it is useful.

Layra-chan
Crew


Smartteaser192

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:28 am


There are 2 kinds of situations here:

Grandfather Paradox vs. Multiple worlds Theory

I would say that Multiple Worlds Theory would be more rational, because it would create a parallel world or timeline.

A physicist named Ronald Mallet, even predicted that time travel is possible.

http://www.physorg.com/news63371210.htmlhttp://www.phys.uconn.edu/~mallett/main/main.htm


Can anyone here explain the authenticity of the existence of John Titor (b. 1996) ? Did he really travel to past temporally?

Here are his personal words from the website http://www.johntitor.com/Pages/2036.html :
Q:If each worldline is separate from the others, then wouldn't the
consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original world line?
John Titor: Yes, that's correct.

Q:How does time travel affect future exploration of the universe?

JT: There is a great deal of debate about trying to use a distortion unit to "travel" to the moon. The experiment would require very precise calculations that would allow the VGL system to find a theoretical path to the moon on a different worldline. The only problem is there is no way to communicate with anyone if the experiment should succeed. In other words, it's possible to do it but only the people on the receiving end could take advantage of it.

Q: How do you know our worldline and yours will follow the same path?
JT: This worldline and my own are almost exactly alike.

Pls. Read this: http://www.johntitor.com/Pages/Story.html

If you have no idea who John Titor is.

Here is the mainpage: http://www.johntitor.com/

The only empirical evidence we know of is his time travel machine.
http://johntitor.strategicbrains.com/TimeMachine.cfm

Any reactions or elaborations?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:01 pm


Smartteaser192
There are 2 kinds of situations here:

Grandfather Paradox vs. Multiple worlds Theory

I would say that Multiple Worlds Theory would be more rational, because it would create a parallel world or timeline.

A physicist named Ronald Mallet, even predicted that time travel is possible.

http://www.physorg.com/news63371210.htmlhttp://www.phys.uconn.edu/~mallett/main/main.htm


Can anyone here explain the authenticity of the existence of John Titor (b. 1996) ? Did he really travel to past temporally?

Here are his personal words from the website http://www.johntitor.com/Pages/2036.html :
Q:If each worldline is separate from the others, then wouldn't the
consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original world line?
John Titor: Yes, that's correct.

Q:How does time travel affect future exploration of the universe?

JT: There is a great deal of debate about trying to use a distortion unit to "travel" to the moon. The experiment would require very precise calculations that would allow the VGL system to find a theoretical path to the moon on a different worldline. The only problem is there is no way to communicate with anyone if the experiment should succeed. In other words, it's possible to do it but only the people on the receiving end could take advantage of it.

Q: How do you know our worldline and yours will follow the same path?
JT: This worldline and my own are almost exactly alike.

Pls. Read this: http://www.johntitor.com/Pages/Story.html

If you have no idea who John Titor is.

Here is the mainpage: http://www.johntitor.com/

The only empirical evidence we know of is his time travel machine.
http://johntitor.strategicbrains.com/TimeMachine.cfm

Any reactions or elaborations?

Sorry, I don't buy the John Titor is actually from the future theory (if you REALLY want to find somebody from the future, look at people playing the stock market and find the people who do the best-- if they are good enough then they're potential time travellers-- or look at people who win the kinds of lotteries where the player gets to pick their own numbers... now look at their travel records-- and so which of those people also happened to be in the right place to observe several great historical events (particularly unexpected ones such as 9/11 or the flooding of New Orleans)... those are your time travellers).

There's a third resolution of the grandfather paradox--
macroscopic quantum superposition:
The states "grandfather lives" and "grandfather is dead" are in superposition....perhaps such systems stay in superposition until an outside observation occurs and the system collapses to one state or the other (or maybe the state just naturally decoheres).... I frequently wonder what it would feel like, subjectively, to be in a mixed-state of superposition (I even wonder if I could/would notice during and/or after such an occurrence)[[I've noticed that it's important that I not take myself too seriously]].

grey wanderer


Layra-chan
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:50 pm


The question of how it feels to be in superposition is complicated by the fact that one of the two eigenstates can't feel anything, what with being dead and all.
I think that you wouldn't actually experience the superposition itself, but rather would be in a superposition of feeling alive and feeling dead, with the two feeling-states not having any communication. In this case "you" would be occupying two states and hence would have to have two experience histories, at least until the superposition collapses.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:03 pm


Layra-chan
The question of how it feels to be in superposition is complicated by the fact that one of the two eigenstates can't feel anything, what with being dead and all.
I think that you wouldn't actually experience the superposition itself, but rather would be in a superposition of feeling alive and feeling dead, with the two feeling-states not having any communication. In this case "you" would be occupying two states and hence would have to have two experience histories, at least until the superposition collapses.

You're probably right... but does the fact that I can simulaneously believe that you're right AND wrong mean I'm superimposed right now?

grey wanderer


SA042

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:05 pm


In the law of superposition, geologically, when one rock layer collapses (or just magically disappears, though I doubt that will ever happen), the rest move down one layer, some moving down at different rates and distances. So I believe that (if I understand the grandfather paradox correctly) time travel is both impossible and possible.
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