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 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:55 am
You know, I was thinking the other day about the value of a single life.
For a lot of faiths and creeds, the justification behind pacifism is that all lives are of equal value, right? Well, if all life is of equal value in the eyes of the universe, then that would have to mean that the value of a serial killer is on par with Mother Theresa. What is the difference, then, between being either one? You can't say that Mother Theresa is going to heaven while the serial killer is going to hell, because if both lives are of equal value, then it makes no sense for one to recieve better treatment than the other in the afterlife.
Similarly, it's equally silly to say, "Well, it matters to me, because I think that killing babies is wrong." Obviously it isn't, because a person who kills babies is worth just as much as someone who completely devotes themselves to the service of the poor. You would be lying to youself to think otherwhise.
So this leaves me swimming in a universe with no morality whatsoever. I am very uncomfortable with that idea, and feel an instinctive need come up with some way to rationalize the way I behave. Either all life is not equal, and all the religions stressing harmony are a bunch of bunk, or all life is equal, and all the religions stressing harmony are still a bunch of bunk.
I am sure I am not the first person to have arrived at this conclusion. What do you all think? What are your personal views on this issue?
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:59 am
This is the perfect question for me ^_^.
Now, for the body; the human body, when broken down into its basic elements and minerals, is only worth about $4.50.
A soul, a truly good soul, is priceless. Their life here to people who love them is uncountable in value. However those who decide to purposely take the life of those truly good souls lose all value and should be eliminated.
I recently took judgment into my own hands and did something that may end up in my father's death(no, nothing illegal, the law has no standing point in a situation such as this). He's an alcoholic, an a*****e, a dumbass(literally an IQ of 60 probably), a wife beater, a child molester(not me XD, my niece) and a compulsive liar.
That, is somebody who deserves no right to live.
In closing, my opinion is...
No life is equal, everybody is different.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:31 am
paradox. I believe people are all equal in terms of how they deserve to be treated by the rest of humanity. Not saying you shouldn't lock up serial killers or something (I'm all in favour of keeping them out of kindergartens!), but they still deserve the basic human rights and respect etc etc. I will oppose the death penalty forever. If you kill someone because they murdered three children, what does that make you??
I don't believe people are equal in that some people strive to do the best for everyone and so on, some people are utterly selfish and so on. None of us are equal in what we are worth to the world, though we are all worth something...
Does any of that make sense??
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:52 pm
It makes sense. Assuming that all lives are not of equal value, to treat them as if they were because otherwhise your own life would be degraded to their level, and you yourself would be guilty of the same crimes they are, is a rational arguement. I like that.
@ [BlkCat]: $4.50?!? Holy cow. Good thing I'm probably worth more fully assembled than in a scrap yard. *Can see an auctioneer closing bids on her dismembered arm at 50ยข*
As for alcoholism, I sort of know what you mean. My own father started to slip down that path for a while. He never beat anybody, just came home, drank, crashed out and was generally unhelpful. He shaped up pretty quickly when my mother threatened to leave.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:52 pm
Greeneyed_falcon If you kill someone because they murdered three children, what does that make you?? Noble, a worker of Justice, a Balance Keeper.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:25 pm
"That, is somebody who deserves no right to live."
I would have to disagree with this, although I have an idea how hard it can be to have a father like that, since I have one as well. No physical abuse, only verbal and psychological, but still.
Why can't both the serial killer and Mother Theresea go to Heaven? I do see all lives as being equal. Not only that, at an essential level to me, I don't see one human life as being of more value than one dog's, for instance.
This is possible for me to believe in, and for morality to exist as well, since I believe in reincarnation. If someone like Mother Theresea dies, I believe they will most likely go straight to heaven, versus a serial killer who might get reincarnated as a blade of grass. Or even a person who gets murdered by a serial killer. Cosmic irony.
Of course, the theories are a lot easier to hold than to live by; if I had to save a human or a spider, it'd be the human every time. And I'm not a vegetarian, either. And of course serial murderers make me feel very ill to my stomach. But you get the idea.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:47 pm
Wings of Aegis "That, is somebody who deserves no right to live." I would have to disagree with this, although I have an idea how hard it can be to have a father like that, since I have one as well. No physical abuse, only verbal and psychological, but still. Why can't both the serial killer and Mother Theresea go to Heaven? I do see all lives as being equal. Not only that, at an essential level to me, I don't see one human life as being of more value than one dog's, for instance. This is possible for me to believe in, and for morality to exist as well, since I believe in reincarnation. If someone like Mother Theresea dies, I believe they will most likely go straight to heaven, versus a serial killer who might get reincarnated as a blade of grass. Or even a person who gets murdered by a serial killer. Cosmic irony. Of course, the theories are a lot easier to hold than to live by; if I had to save a human or a spider, it'd be the human every time. And I'm not a vegetarian, either. And of course serial murderers make me feel very ill to my stomach. But you get the idea. So by your logic, you're equal to a rapist? Personally I'd consider that an insult.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:05 pm
[BlkCat] Wings of Aegis "That, is somebody who deserves no right to live." I would have to disagree with this, although I have an idea how hard it can be to have a father like that, since I have one as well. No physical abuse, only verbal and psychological, but still. Why can't both the serial killer and Mother Theresea go to Heaven? I do see all lives as being equal. Not only that, at an essential level to me, I don't see one human life as being of more value than one dog's, for instance. This is possible for me to believe in, and for morality to exist as well, since I believe in reincarnation. If someone like Mother Theresea dies, I believe they will most likely go straight to heaven, versus a serial killer who might get reincarnated as a blade of grass. Or even a person who gets murdered by a serial killer. Cosmic irony. Of course, the theories are a lot easier to hold than to live by; if I had to save a human or a spider, it'd be the human every time. And I'm not a vegetarian, either. And of course serial murderers make me feel very ill to my stomach. But you get the idea. So by your logic, you're equal to a rapist? Personally I'd consider that an insult. Yes, by my logic, I am essentially equal to a rapist. Now, if someone were to tell me that my spirit's current state is equal to the current state of a rapist, I might become rather offended. However, at the core, our spirits are equal. The rapist is just on a different level currently than me.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:25 pm
Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis "That, is somebody who deserves no right to live." I would have to disagree with this, although I have an idea how hard it can be to have a father like that, since I have one as well. No physical abuse, only verbal and psychological, but still. Why can't both the serial killer and Mother Theresea go to Heaven? I do see all lives as being equal. Not only that, at an essential level to me, I don't see one human life as being of more value than one dog's, for instance. This is possible for me to believe in, and for morality to exist as well, since I believe in reincarnation. If someone like Mother Theresea dies, I believe they will most likely go straight to heaven, versus a serial killer who might get reincarnated as a blade of grass. Or even a person who gets murdered by a serial killer. Cosmic irony. Of course, the theories are a lot easier to hold than to live by; if I had to save a human or a spider, it'd be the human every time. And I'm not a vegetarian, either. And of course serial murderers make me feel very ill to my stomach. But you get the idea. So by your logic, you're equal to a rapist? Personally I'd consider that an insult. Yes, by my logic, I am essentially equal to a rapist. Now, if someone were to tell me that my spirit's current state is equal to the current state of a rapist, I might become rather offended. However, at the core, our spirits are equal. The rapist is just on a different level currently than me. So....equal....but different level....does not compute? XD
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:29 pm
[BlkCat] Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis "That, is somebody who deserves no right to live." I would have to disagree with this, although I have an idea how hard it can be to have a father like that, since I have one as well. No physical abuse, only verbal and psychological, but still. Why can't both the serial killer and Mother Theresea go to Heaven? I do see all lives as being equal. Not only that, at an essential level to me, I don't see one human life as being of more value than one dog's, for instance. This is possible for me to believe in, and for morality to exist as well, since I believe in reincarnation. If someone like Mother Theresea dies, I believe they will most likely go straight to heaven, versus a serial killer who might get reincarnated as a blade of grass. Or even a person who gets murdered by a serial killer. Cosmic irony. Of course, the theories are a lot easier to hold than to live by; if I had to save a human or a spider, it'd be the human every time. And I'm not a vegetarian, either. And of course serial murderers make me feel very ill to my stomach. But you get the idea. So by your logic, you're equal to a rapist? Personally I'd consider that an insult. Yes, by my logic, I am essentially equal to a rapist. Now, if someone were to tell me that my spirit's current state is equal to the current state of a rapist, I might become rather offended. However, at the core, our spirits are equal. The rapist is just on a different level currently than me. So....equal....but different level....does not compute? XD Tee hee, a bit paradoxical, I know. I think every spirit was created as equal, with an equal ultimate potential to try and attain if we so desire. So, it's like we're all moving towards this same goal. Some people, however, move faster than others. A rapist would be further behind in this 'race' than a saint. However, the initial created state of the spirit, and the ultimate potential that could be reached, are equal. Does that make any sense? It might not. sweatdrop The REAL paradox comes in when I say that I believe that potential is infinite. twisted
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:50 pm
Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis "That, is somebody who deserves no right to live." I would have to disagree with this, although I have an idea how hard it can be to have a father like that, since I have one as well. No physical abuse, only verbal and psychological, but still. Why can't both the serial killer and Mother Theresea go to Heaven? I do see all lives as being equal. Not only that, at an essential level to me, I don't see one human life as being of more value than one dog's, for instance. This is possible for me to believe in, and for morality to exist as well, since I believe in reincarnation. If someone like Mother Theresea dies, I believe they will most likely go straight to heaven, versus a serial killer who might get reincarnated as a blade of grass. Or even a person who gets murdered by a serial killer. Cosmic irony. Of course, the theories are a lot easier to hold than to live by; if I had to save a human or a spider, it'd be the human every time. And I'm not a vegetarian, either. And of course serial murderers make me feel very ill to my stomach. But you get the idea. So by your logic, you're equal to a rapist? Personally I'd consider that an insult. Yes, by my logic, I am essentially equal to a rapist. Now, if someone were to tell me that my spirit's current state is equal to the current state of a rapist, I might become rather offended. However, at the core, our spirits are equal. The rapist is just on a different level currently than me. So....equal....but different level....does not compute? XD Tee hee, a bit paradoxical, I know. I think every spirit was created as equal, with an equal ultimate potential to try and attain if we so desire. So, it's like we're all moving towards this same goal. Some people, however, move faster than others. A rapist would be further behind in this 'race' than a saint. However, the initial created state of the spirit, and the ultimate potential that could be reached, are equal. Does that make any sense? It might not. sweatdrop The REAL paradox comes in when I say that I believe that potential is infinite. twisted Ah, so all souls are created equal, but their actions change their value? Thats something that makes sense that I can agree with =P lol.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:00 pm
[BlkCat] Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis "That, is somebody who deserves no right to live." I would have to disagree with this, although I have an idea how hard it can be to have a father like that, since I have one as well. No physical abuse, only verbal and psychological, but still. Why can't both the serial killer and Mother Theresea go to Heaven? I do see all lives as being equal. Not only that, at an essential level to me, I don't see one human life as being of more value than one dog's, for instance. This is possible for me to believe in, and for morality to exist as well, since I believe in reincarnation. If someone like Mother Theresea dies, I believe they will most likely go straight to heaven, versus a serial killer who might get reincarnated as a blade of grass. Or even a person who gets murdered by a serial killer. Cosmic irony. Of course, the theories are a lot easier to hold than to live by; if I had to save a human or a spider, it'd be the human every time. And I'm not a vegetarian, either. And of course serial murderers make me feel very ill to my stomach. But you get the idea. So by your logic, you're equal to a rapist? Personally I'd consider that an insult. Yes, by my logic, I am essentially equal to a rapist. Now, if someone were to tell me that my spirit's current state is equal to the current state of a rapist, I might become rather offended. However, at the core, our spirits are equal. The rapist is just on a different level currently than me. So....equal....but different level....does not compute? XD Tee hee, a bit paradoxical, I know. I think every spirit was created as equal, with an equal ultimate potential to try and attain if we so desire. So, it's like we're all moving towards this same goal. Some people, however, move faster than others. A rapist would be further behind in this 'race' than a saint. However, the initial created state of the spirit, and the ultimate potential that could be reached, are equal. Does that make any sense? It might not. sweatdrop The REAL paradox comes in when I say that I believe that potential is infinite. twisted Ah, so all souls are created equal, but their actions change their value? Thats something that makes sense that I can agree with =P lol. Close, except...I don't believe their value changes, because ultimately all souls are equal (if they were to reach potential, even though it's infinite). But I think that's because my empathy is directed towards essence, not current "value," so I focus on the essential qualities. heart Oh! And thank you for having me explain it; I've never tried to put it into words before. xd
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:12 pm
Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis Yes, by my logic, I am essentially equal to a rapist. Now, if someone were to tell me that my spirit's current state is equal to the current state of a rapist, I might become rather offended. However, at the core, our spirits are equal. The rapist is just on a different level currently than me. So....equal....but different level....does not compute? XD Tee hee, a bit paradoxical, I know. I think every spirit was created as equal, with an equal ultimate potential to try and attain if we so desire. So, it's like we're all moving towards this same goal. Some people, however, move faster than others. A rapist would be further behind in this 'race' than a saint. However, the initial created state of the spirit, and the ultimate potential that could be reached, are equal. Does that make any sense? It might not. sweatdrop The REAL paradox comes in when I say that I believe that potential is infinite. twisted Ah, so all souls are created equal, but their actions change their value? Thats something that makes sense that I can agree with =P lol. Close, except...I don't believe their value changes, because ultimately all souls are equal (if they were to reach potential, even though it's infinite). But I think that's because my empathy is directed towards essence, not current "value," so I focus on the essential qualities. heart Oh! And thank you for having me explain it; I've never tried to put it into words before. xd Yw =P it helped me understand it a bit better. I'm not saying I agree, but I certainly understand your viewpoint. But I did just think of a way to explain how I feel about it: Say somebody said they would destroy the soul of somebody you loved, or the soul of a murderer. Which would you choose? Wouldn't the soul of the one you loved have more value than the killer's? Would you let the person you love cease to exist because you didn't want the killer to lose his soul?
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:26 pm
[BlkCat] Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis [BlkCat] Wings of Aegis Yes, by my logic, I am essentially equal to a rapist. Now, if someone were to tell me that my spirit's current state is equal to the current state of a rapist, I might become rather offended. However, at the core, our spirits are equal. The rapist is just on a different level currently than me. So....equal....but different level....does not compute? XD Tee hee, a bit paradoxical, I know. I think every spirit was created as equal, with an equal ultimate potential to try and attain if we so desire. So, it's like we're all moving towards this same goal. Some people, however, move faster than others. A rapist would be further behind in this 'race' than a saint. However, the initial created state of the spirit, and the ultimate potential that could be reached, are equal. Does that make any sense? It might not. sweatdrop The REAL paradox comes in when I say that I believe that potential is infinite. twisted Ah, so all souls are created equal, but their actions change their value? Thats something that makes sense that I can agree with =P lol. Close, except...I don't believe their value changes, because ultimately all souls are equal (if they were to reach potential, even though it's infinite). But I think that's because my empathy is directed towards essence, not current "value," so I focus on the essential qualities. heart Oh! And thank you for having me explain it; I've never tried to put it into words before. xd Yw =P it helped me understand it a bit better. I'm not saying I agree, but I certainly understand your viewpoint. But I did just think of a way to explain how I feel about it: Say somebody said they would destroy the soul of somebody you loved, or the soul of a murderer. Which would you choose? Wouldn't the soul of the one you loved have more value than the killer's? Would you let the person you love cease to exist because you didn't want the killer to lose his soul? I don't believe souls can be destroyed? So that question is kinda superfluous to me. BUT, if I had to answer it, it depends on what the person I loved wanted. If they wanted to continue to exist, of course I would choose them as opposed to the killer...but not because they have more essential value than the killer, but just because I love them and I'm selfish like that. The person I love has more subjective value to me, sure, but not essential, objective value whee
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:40 pm
My opinion is that physical life is basically worthless. You die, you start over. Big deal. XD Of course, I doubt there are many people who share my view, so I don't really know the answer to your question.
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