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A Murder of Angels
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:01 am


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Yesterday, April 23rd, after 10 years of petitioning and lawsuits Wiccans earned the right to have the pentagram placed on their grave markers in military cemeteries.

In military graveyards, tombstones can only be market with religious symbols from a pre-approved list, reffered to as the Emblems of Belief. There are currently 39 symbols on that list.

Available Embelems of Belief (with Pentagram added at the bottom)

The first request was made by the Aquarian Tabernacle Church of Wicca nine years ago. Each time a request was made, it was either rejected or left unanswered. In that time smaller, less well-known religious groups have come forth and had their symbols placed in the list.

The issue has arisen several times since then, one of the most recent cases being that of Patrick Stewart, who was killed in Afghanistan. Since his death in 2004, there was a growing campaign within the Pagan community to get the Pentagram officially recognised.

Finally, after a lawsuit from more than four different Pagan organizations and their supporters, the government officially agreed to allow the Pentagram in military cemeteries.

As part of the agreement, 11 families will have the symbol placed on the gravestones of their loved ones, and the US government will pay $225,000 in attorneys fees to the organizations involved.

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Witches' Voice Pagan Website on this victory
CNN - Wiccan symbol OK for soldiers' graves
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:15 am


Best news I've heard in a long time. Definately a day to celebrate in the future!

Starlock
Vice Captain


Fae_Knight

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:31 pm


'Bout damn time.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:46 pm


Yes! They deasurve that.

ffdarkangel


Cranium Squirrel

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:16 pm


Well, that's good news. 3nodding Though I wonder why only the Wiccans get theirs? What of the Kemetics, Hellenics, Celtic recons and the Asatru? When're they getting symbols, and what will they use?

Question though: Are the corpses really religious anymore? I mean, I know in some faiths, the body's going to be required later, but does the body in the ground right now need a marker to know what faith it is?

Kind of a stupid question, I realize, but I'm very much having an 'I left my brain in my other pants' kind of day. smile
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:09 pm


I suppose its to retain their memory, but Im getting cremated anyway so that my family can remember me saving them a hell of a lot of money.

Fae_Knight


A Murder of Angels
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:00 pm


Byaggha
Well, that's good news. 3nodding Though I wonder why only the Wiccans get theirs? What of the Kemetics, Hellenics, Celtic recons and the Asatru? When're they getting symbols, and what will they use?

Question though: Are the corpses really religious anymore? I mean, I know in some faiths, the body's going to be required later, but does the body in the ground right now need a marker to know what faith it is?

Kind of a stupid question, I realize, but I'm very much having an 'I left my brain in my other pants' kind of day. smile


What must be understood is that for a religion to be on the list, the petitioners need to prove that what they follow is a widespread, mainstream religion. Likewise, they would not add a symbol for only one single soldier.

Also, like Fae mentioned, it's a remembrance sort of thing. I suppose if the deceased person didn't really care while they were alive, not a big deal would be made once they died... but then again, their family members might want to remember them in association with their religion.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:44 pm


A Murder of Angels
What must be understood is that for a religion to be on the list, the petitioners need to prove that what they follow is a widespread, mainstream religion. Likewise, they would not add a symbol for only one single soldier.
There's more than one 'other' Pagan soldier in the military, I'm sure. Wiccans aren't the only ones. I was just asking when they're going to get recognized as well is all; some of the recons are just as widespread as Wicca. 3nodding

Quote:
Also, like Fae mentioned, it's a remembrance sort of thing. I suppose if the deceased person didn't really care while they were alive, not a big deal would be made once they died... but then again, their family members might want to remember them in association with their religion.
Maybe, though I'd prefer to be remembered for who I was and not a faith symbol, regardless of what that faith is. I still want to go with Fae's other point though - it's cheaper and generally a lot less burdensome on the family to get torched on death. Up with cremation! xd

Cranium Squirrel


A Murder of Angels
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:50 pm


Byaggha
A Murder of Angels
What must be understood is that for a religion to be on the list, the petitioners need to prove that what they follow is a widespread, mainstream religion. Likewise, they would not add a symbol for only one single soldier.
There's more than one 'other' Pagan soldier in the military, I'm sure. Wiccans aren't the only ones. I was just asking when they're going to get recognized as well is all; some of the recons are just as widespread as Wicca. 3nodding

I understand. But look at it this way... When the leader of the country says this:

Quote:
"I don't think that witchcraft is a religion. I wish the military would rethink this decision."
-- George W. Bush to ABCNEWS, June, 1999 (source)

We get issues like the one this thread is about.

Byaggha
Quote:
Also, like Fae mentioned, it's a remembrance sort of thing. I suppose if the deceased person didn't really care while they were alive, not a big deal would be made once they died... but then again, their family members might want to remember them in association with their religion.
Maybe, though I'd prefer to be remembered for who I was and not a faith symbol, regardless of what that faith is. I still want to go with Fae's other point though - it's cheaper and generally a lot less burdensome on the family to get torched on death. Up with cremation! xd
I've always wanted a funeral pyre! I wanna go out in an old-skool Pagan way! xd
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:53 am


It's my understanding that Bush did later apologize for that statement. sweatdrop

It would be nice to see some other Neopagan symbols approved, but that might be too much to hope for unless the particular tradition is organized and recognized enough to develop the momentum to petition the VA. I mean, some modern Pagans have their own personal symbols. What do we do about that? It would be unwieldly and probably impractical for the VA to approve everything under the sun, but if it isn't, why is there a list in the first place?

Starlock
Vice Captain


Cranium Squirrel

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:01 am


A Murder of Angels
I understand. But look at it this way... When the leader of the country says this:

Quote:
"I don't think that witchcraft is a religion. I wish the military would rethink this decision."
-- George W. Bush to ABCNEWS, June, 1999 (source)

We get issues like the one this thread is about.
There's a reason I'm sometimes scared to be a non-Christian in this country. And a Canadian. *shudder* I'm like, one strike from being executed for treason! xd

Quote:
I've always wanted a funeral pyre! I wanna go out in an old-skool Pagan way! xd
Go for it. In fact, do it one better and request one of those great pyre-barges that were popular with the Norse of legend. biggrin

I'm so getting burnt when I die. 3nodding I just haven't decided what I want done with my ashes. I might make a donation and have them shipped to a monastery and interred. I think it'd be a nice place, plus it aids in the monk's meditations - having the leftovers of dead people hanging about is a great reminder of impermanence. biggrin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:03 pm


That's so great! I'm so glad that it's being recognized.

This is a triumph! *does triumphant dance*

But... George Bush said that?

0_0 How mean.

Wings Akimbo
Crew


A Murder of Angels
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:47 pm


Starlock
It's my understanding that Bush did later apologize for that statement. sweatdrop


[disclaimer] I don't like the president. [/disclaimer]

While he may have apologized, from my understanding of his religious zealotry and the acts and speeches he's demonstrated while in office, that apology was more than likely just for show. It seems clear (at least to me, if not to anyone else) that religious tolerance within government in general reflects the current administration.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:18 pm


I remember reading that in the newspaper...... im very glad that they are letting them put pentacles on the tombstones.

Victorie Rose


Ether-Eating Eskimo

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:20 am


I think it's dumb that they need a pre-approved list. I mean really...

If they don't agree with your religion, they can just say no. :S

I know tons of (atheistic) Satanists, about as many I as I do Wiccans, but I didn't see the Sigil of Baphomet.
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