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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:42 pm
Okay, I get this issue both online and offline... you come up with a decent strategy that is fun and can manage to win at least 24% of time, then you get harrassed by groups of people that can't beat it even when the answer is staring them in the face. They claim that your combo/deck type is broken, unfair, illegal, SHOULD be illegal, or any of a thousand other complaints... even if its a combo/decktype that EVERY color of every format has cards against (usually common cheapo cards that almost everyone uses anyways.) but they don't have that card in their decks because everyone they deal with "Netdecks" and apparently none of the "legitimate decks" use cards such as Ethereal Haze, Bad moon, Fog, etc...
Anyhoo, what I'm trying to say is: EVERY COMBO/DECK TYPE CAN BE DEFEATED WITHOUT HAVING TO SPEND MAJOR BUCKS. Don't complain about a combo, ADAPT... Nothing Irks me more than players who only adapt by copying tournament winning decks or anti-winner decks...
Simply put, its a game, don't complain when you get beaten, learn and grow as a player....
Below is a list of Combos/Deck types that are frequently complained about and how I handle them (USUALLY WITHOUT ALTERING MY DECK!) there are more and I will help ANYONE develop strategies/combos if they PM me
Elves- Simple ...Bad elf go away.... destroy/damage/bounce/rfg the elves so that the opponent can't have more than 3 on the field.... 1 elf is harmless, 2 is okay, 3 is borderline, 4 or more is dangerous. cards like Granite shard, wrath of god, char on isochron scepter, and honden of infinite rage are good. Personally I use an elf deck that has elf replica and darksteel forge....
Counter- Play more spells than they have counters.... save the big ones for when the hand, field and if flashback is an issue, the graveyard are freed up.... If they are pulling out all the stops (mega-drawing to keep counterspells in hand) then use THAT against them... counterspelling is all about timing, use that.
Jitte- yeah, I saw this a lot for a long time on MtGO, simple... Destroy/RfG/etc. the jitte, bouncing is also great.
Platinum Angel- Put them in a losing situation and then get rid of the angel, but stack it up... (one time I had a goblin replica on the field, a disenchant in my hand and another card (i forget the name) with flashback to destroy artifacts in my graveyard. I got them to where they had no deck and no life then used the goblin, keeping the other two optuions in backup)
Affinity- Apparently if you play any artifact land in the first turn then you're playing affinity... thats not true but still.... Artifact destroys work great, as well as hum of the radix.
Modular/arcbound- defeating modular is much like dealing with elves, except you have to clear the board quicker to keep them from getting a huge fatty, RFG effects work best as they preempt the Modular ability
Slivers- Combine the elf/modular strategies but if you have a mistform creature, a sliver (preferably one without an ability of its own like one of the artifact slivers) or anything to get a "sliver" on your board then don't destroy, USE it!
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:41 pm
I've watched several players quit playing M:tG because of people complaining about their deck. I never had much of an issue facing them though.
It's too bad, I really enjoyed playing them. Maybe they'll come back, I know they kept their collection.
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:52 pm
I don't play with players who don't play competitively because I can't stand complainers. Even so, I heard my share of Broken Jitte. But that's because it was very good. The only thing I can't aggre with you is your Affinity rant. Artifact destruction hardly works thanks to Ravenger. Beating Affinity isn't so simple as Hum of the Radix seeing how the deck had a very, very solid turn 4 win. And some of the cards in Affinity are good enough to be banned in Extended, not to mention half the deck was banned in standard. That was one deck that was truely broken.
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:59 pm
The Mustache I don't play with players who don't play competitively because I can't stand complainers. Even so, I heard my share of Broken Jitte. But that's because it was very good. The only thing I can't aggre with you is your Affinity rant. Artifact destruction hardly works thanks to Ravenger. Beating Affinity isn't so simple as Hum of the Radix seeing how the deck had a very, very solid turn 4 win. And some of the cards in Affinity are good enough to be banned in Extended, not to mention half the deck was banned in standard. That was one deck that was truely broken. and that's why so many people hate mirrodin. i don't care if i'm playing against a broken deck, sometimes i just love seeing a great deck in action (even if it's beating me). i remember on mtgo i played a deck that had an infinite myr token combo. i managed to get a screenshot of my three bird soldiers against his army of 100+ 1/1 myr creature tokens, and my -80 life total when the game was over. XD
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:41 pm
The Mustache I don't play with players who don't play competitively because I can't stand complainers. Even so, I heard my share of Broken Jitte. But that's because it was very good. The only thing I can't aggre with you is your Affinity rant. Artifact destruction hardly works thanks to Ravenger. Beating Affinity isn't so simple as Hum of the Radix seeing how the deck had a very, very solid turn 4 win. And some of the cards in Affinity are good enough to be banned in Extended, not to mention half the deck was banned in standard. That was one deck that was truely broken. the trick is to destroy the artifacts quickly and in large enough groups. and hum slows it down, as i said, EVERY combo has flaws as do the ways of beating them. what I listed was suggestions based on how i beat these deck types. solid 4th turn win? I've seen obliterate go off on 3rd turn well enough, as well as cheaper versions like "Magus of the disk". Personally I don't like the term "broken", cards tend to get declared as broken if a large enough group claims its "broken" or if the top 5 players at any given major tourney win with it. heck some cards got banned for no apparent reason....
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:45 pm
super.funk The Mustache I don't play with players who don't play competitively because I can't stand complainers. Even so, I heard my share of Broken Jitte. But that's because it was very good. The only thing I can't aggre with you is your Affinity rant. Artifact destruction hardly works thanks to Ravenger. Beating Affinity isn't so simple as Hum of the Radix seeing how the deck had a very, very solid turn 4 win. And some of the cards in Affinity are good enough to be banned in Extended, not to mention half the deck was banned in standard. That was one deck that was truely broken. and that's why so many people hate mirrodin. i don't care if i'm playing against a broken deck, sometimes i just love seeing a great deck in action (even if it's beating me). i remember on mtgo i played a deck that had an infinite myr token combo. i managed to get a screenshot of my three bird soldiers against his army of 100+ 1/1 myr creature tokens, and my -80 life total when the game was over. XD i got a screenshot of two players breaking MtGO with an army of over 2000 spirit tokens and a kodama of the Center tree. Mirrodin is one of my fav blocks (I like artifacts, I'm sorry) anyways, the point of this thread is that win or lose, don't complain about what your opponents use to beat you, learn from it. There ARE no truly broken decks, you just have to rise to the challenge....
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:48 pm
Zeddicuus I've watched several players quit playing M:tG because of people complaining about their deck. I never had much of an issue facing them though. It's too bad, I really enjoyed playing them. Maybe they'll come back, I know they kept their collection. while i dislike complainers, i love the deck sthey complain about.... THOSE are the decks to play against.... THOSE are the most viable challenges, and THATS where the fun in the game is for me.
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:24 pm
Agreed. People tell me a deck is unstoppable and I'm all for playing against it. The harder the player is to take out, the more fun it gets in finding ways to make my deck do the job.
I'm not a competitive player myself, but I try to put generic answers in all of my decks if possible. Enchantment, artifact and creature kill. A bit of each just in case. I also tend to use the phrase "Go hard or go home" while playing, trying to get a player to not hold back if they can do something.
I've been teaching the new players in this area this kind of 'code of ethic' and it's making for very interesting games compared to the old play group that would normally sit back and react to what you play, and not be the aggressor.
But not much else feels better than trashing the crap out of a net deck everyone else is bitching about.
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:39 pm
Zeddicuus Agreed. People tell me a deck is unstoppable and I'm all for playing against it. The harder the player is to take out, the more fun it gets in finding ways to make my deck do the job. I'm not a competitive player myself, but I try to put generic answers in all of my decks if possible. Enchantment, artifact and creature kill. A bit of each just in case. I also tend to use the phrase "Go hard or go home" while playing, trying to get a player to not hold back if they can do something. I've been teaching the new players in this area this kind of 'code of ethic' and it's making for very interesting games compared to the old play group that would normally sit back and react to what you play, and not be the aggressor. But not much else feels better than trashing the crap out of a net deck everyone else is bitching about. In my area i am responsible for bringing 6 players into the game, and I've managed to teach them to play with all their skill and to be good sports.. only one has failed in this... he has trouble winning so he says "the game is too boring, no challenge" and quit the game... mainly his losing was due to his unwqillingness to adapt, he played the same red/black burn deck for his entire run even though he had the cards to do otherwise and the deck began failing as his opponents got used to it.
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:05 pm
i know what you mean, i have a goblin burn decks that beats my friend all the time and he says that its a cheap deck and that goblin decks burn decks and both combined are cheap beginner decks for people who have no stratigy
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:03 pm
Zarc 01 i know what you mean, i have a goblin burn decks that beats my friend all the time and he says that its a cheap deck and that goblin decks burn decks and both combined are cheap beginner decks for people who have no stratigy while burn decks aRE simple and good to learn on, they are also easy to beat and need finnese to win with against skilled opponents.
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