|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:06 pm
If you're being very scientific, you could conclude that in the exact same situation (on the scale of the smallest particles and energy) the same thing would always happen. The forces would be the same, the same reactions would occur. An example:
If we toss a coin, we say it has a 50% chance of tails. However, with the proper data you could calculate on what side the coin would fall. This information however, is so incredibly complex that it's impossible to calculate before the coin has fallen down.
If in the exact same situation, the same always happens, you could calculate the universe, though that calculation is so massive and requires so much data, it nears the impossible and will never be achieved by mankind. Therefore there is no destiny or free choice; you will always make the exact same choice in the exact same situation.
There is a flaw in this reasoning: according to some scientists, there is a certain degree of chance on quantum level, but I take this as a lack of knowledge and understanding.
If you've read all of this (I know it's a lot), then please tell me how you feel about this, I'd appreciate it.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:20 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:22 pm
elmon If you're being very scientific, you could conclude that in the exact same situation (on the scale of the smallest particles and energy) the same thing would always happen. The forces would be the same, the same reactions would occur. An example: If we toss a coin, we say it has a 50% chance of tails. However, with the proper data you could calculate on what side the coin would fall. This information however, is so incredibly complex that it's impossible to calculate before the coin has fallen down. If in the exact same situation, the same always happens, you could calculate the universe, though that calculation is so massive and requires so much data, it nears the impossible and will never be achieved by mankind. Therefore there is no destiny or free choice; you will always make the exact same choice in the exact same situation. There is a flaw in this reasoning: according to some scientists, there is a certain degree of chance on quantum level, but I take this as a lack of knowledge and understanding. If you've read all of this (I know it's a lot), then please tell me how you feel about this, I'd appreciate it. Well theres still a chance it could fall either way. Because we dont no what way forces will be acting on them..bla bla. But yea i suppose you could get information to make it like 70%/30% chance if you had the time but it would not be certian (even if there was the time to do this before the coin dropped) that it would be the most likely one which is suggested.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:13 pm
Yes I see, belive it or not my 8th grade math class actually debated this to our teacher.
Mario, One of the biggest jokesters in class, actually defyed Mrs. Westcomb, and pretty much said the same thing, We were all amazed, but got it aswell. She kept tring "To be the teacher and not the teached" but we tottaly had it.
Great consept, though there are too many variables (the exscat particals and energy you mentioned) to do it in a jiff.
oh and another time Devon, Another jokester, actually got the coin to land on its side just to prove there is three possible outcomes, and no he didn't do anything but flip it with some agressive force, onto the floor. it ened up on its side.
Damn Westcomb was freaking. whee
We all call him a witch to make fun of the event, it was pretty freakworthy.
Mario and the girls were jumpin and everything. It was axesome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:53 pm
Huh? so your saying that there insnt a 50/50 chance that it wont land like that? i dont understand...i read it but really fast so yeah...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:04 pm
hurm...
*is perplexed*
I don't follow.
What is so complicated to comprehend?
The chances of a quarter falling on tail is not 50/50- is that what you are talking about? The chance of it landing on not either side, but straight up?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:29 am
The coin is an example. The moment you toss the coin, forces will act on it. If you had all the right information, including the exact positions, energy levels and such of all the particles, you could calculate exactly what would happen to the coin, although we don't have the required understanding of particles yet. But if you had all this information and knowledge, you could calculate what the coin would land on before it would land (though that is so hard, you'd nead a humongous computer, probably larger than the earth). The same applies to the whole universe: if you knew all about Chemistry and Physics and had all the data about every single particle in the universe, you could exactly calculate what would happen in the universe. But that calculation is so immensely complex (not to mention that you'd have to calculate the calculating, calculate the calculating the calculating, etc.) that it's probably impossible.
So what I'm saying is: things happen one way and they never will another way, because the past sets what is going to happen. But predicting the future isn't possible because of these impossibilities.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:36 am
Lol, human mind is not even capable to calculate multiple calculations like a calculator, let alone calculating complex data. Yes, indeed there is no way to predict future accurately, but i strongly disagree. In some cases there is a way to predict the future. But that DOES NOT count as KNOWING the future. Yes, I'm talking about intuition and things regarding it. And there is chance. If a thing is to happen one way there is a chance it may happen the other way. But it all depends on circumstances. And the falling of one coin and landing on one side is can be calculated easily (although, you're right, not by a human). All you need to notice is the velocity of the coin's spin, predicting the number of spins on account of the kinetic energy (force) applied by your thumb, and as well as the apex of height it reaches. There are many things to be understood....Althoug I have not much time at the moment, I'll come back to it later.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:15 am
It's certainly an interesting theory. But I have to agree with zakhiyu and say that comparing something simple like the flip of the coin is slightly different to say... when the next genocide will occur. Though ignoring human nature in general, I think that it could well be possible to figure out any natural events if anyone or thing had the capacity to deal with and assess so much information.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:17 am
I kind of understand what you are saying. So are you saying that if you flip a coin, and get tails, And if you happen to do the exact same thing again in the same enviroment and everything, then the coin will be tails again? That actually makes sense....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:03 am
Quote: Now send me a PM or the Kitten get's it! OH no not the Kitten *hides* On another note...this thread makes my head hurt
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:14 pm
Except of course that this is where the Uncertainty Principle comes into play... we can't know the values of the forces and what-have-you without altering them. It is questionable whether the universe itself knows - and if it doesn't, then performing everything exactly the same way a second time might not yield the same result.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:35 pm
I like the new people. And yes I kinda aggre with the logic in this form. But at the same time I'm going, "What grade are these kids in."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:52 pm
askling I like the new people. And yes I kinda aggre with the logic in this form. But at the same time I'm going, "What grade are these kids in." What difference does it matter? Some kids go straight to college from 10th grade. Some get a degree and don't have the brains of an ant. Heh. As for that certainty principle (or whatever it is), you have the variables of the coin (worn in one place, not in another, a chip here, etc.) as well as the variables of the environment, plus the way in which it is tossed.... You may as well be talking chaos theory. And to apply the certainty deal to humans... nope, can't happen. If someone has a mental illness, their behavior in the same situation simply cannot be predicted, as the influence of the illness is stronger or lesser at different times, due to many other variables. And from the looks of the world, I'd say many world leaders are mentally ill to some degree or another. (Especially applying to the prediction of a hollocaust.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
