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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:41 pm
I seem to remember that (at least a couple of years ago) "lesbian" was a favorite "insult" used by immature lifers when they'd backpedaled as far as they could. I have to wonder: Where did this come from? It's not new thing for "gay" or any word like that to be used as an insult, but where does the "all pro-choicers are lesbians" come from?
What're your thoughts on it?
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:54 pm
(I like your sig!)
It's a common insult hurled at feminists and pro-choice people and, basically, any woman who refuses to be treated as an inferior.
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:35 pm
Umm... lesbians don't have to worry about unwanted pregnancies! (unless by rape) Why would they care SO MUCH about abortion rights? wink ok ya'll, i'm just joking here but I hope you get the point!
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:58 pm
It may have to do with the (please, pardon the offensive language -- I merely use it as an illustration) "butch dyke" image/stereotype that is often associated with the feminist movement in general.
I cannot recall, but I am fairly certain that there was a thread in here that even highlighted a pro-life blog that claimed that "feminists are really just women trying to be men" -- I think they might have even included "evidence" by means of pictures.
That might be where the stereotype derives..., perhaps.
And, on a somewhat related tangent, I think I make a fabulous lesbian, if I do say so myself -- well, except for the part where I'm not a woman and I am not actually attracted to women anyway....
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:05 am
Well, some of us are! surprised
I don't know, actually. Maybe it's since we can't get pregnant from our partners, so unwanted pregnancy isn't really a concern as we'll never be "real" mommies. No "real" mommy would ever be pro-choice because that would mean she'd want to kill her baby, don'tcha know.
And I don't get the butch dyke thing. I mean, I'm just about as femmy as they come. cry (Well, except for my short hair which wasn't really by choice.)
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:24 am
What's the worst thing you could think of? When I was in elementary school, I would think to myself, "Well, if you look at this world, the least powerful would be an underage black girl."
Now just add lesbian (or even bisexual), and you have a Questionable Woman.
A Questionable Woman has been ridiculed (and murdered) for thousands of years. "Safe" women dread to become her, and "eccentric" (ie: fat/unattractive/etc women) think "at least I'm not her". Any attempts at DARING to question authority (ie: males can do what they want and women get pulled along underneath them), is automatically singled out as Questionable Women. After all, why SHOULDN'T those women be happy? They've got microwave ovens, vaccume cleaners, and irons! Goddamn! What else could they want?!
So of course, the best thing to insult a woman (and try to get her to retreat back into that scared, whipped little feminine thing that you're used to) is to try and accuse her of being Questionable. Not just telling a woman what she is, but telling her that she is not, in fact, a GOOD woman, or much of a woman at all. To tell a woman that she is a THING removed from anything female is enough to cause most women to curl up and give up the fight.
However, when enough Questionable Women get together, it's difficult to just single them out.
And really, that's what it's about. "Lesbian" is the new "c**t" or the new "b***h" or the new "INSERT MEAN FEMALE SLUR HERE". It's not what "lesbian" really means, it's about the idea of usurping a woman's self-identity as a female, and subsequently pulling the rug out from under her by hurting her in a very personal place.
When someone says "that's gay", everyone knows that it's not someone talking about a homosexual act but a negative, weird, and horrible act.
Of course, we don't always mean for words to take on new meanings, but hey, that's the way language works.
So in short, "lesbian" as an insult is truly just another attempt at ad-hom attacking by stupid, shortsighted little pricks who can't create a solid argument to save their own buttholes.
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:17 am
[Sha] What's the worst thing you could think of? When I was in elementary school, I would think to myself, "Well, if you look at this world, the least powerful would be an underage black girl." Now just add lesbian (or even bisexual), and you have a Questionable Woman. A Questionable Woman has been ridiculed (and murdered) for thousands of years. "Safe" women dread to become her, and "eccentric" (ie: fat/unattractive/etc women) think "at least I'm not her". Any attempts at DARING to question authority (ie: males can do what they want and women get pulled along underneath them), is automatically singled out as Questionable Women. After all, why SHOULDN'T those women be happy? They've got microwave ovens, vaccume cleaners, and irons! Goddamn! What else could they want?! So of course, the best thing to insult a woman (and try to get her to retreat back into that scared, whipped little feminine thing that you're used to) is to try and accuse her of being Questionable. Not just telling a woman what she is, but telling her that she is not, in fact, a GOOD woman, or much of a woman at all. To tell a woman that she is a THING removed from anything female is enough to cause most women to curl up and give up the fight. However, when enough Questionable Women get together, it's difficult to just single them out. And really, that's what it's about. "Lesbian" is the new "c**t" or the new "b***h" or the new "INSERT MEAN FEMALE SLUR HERE". It's not what "lesbian" really means, it's about the idea of usurping a woman's self-identity as a female, and subsequently pulling the rug out from under her by hurting her in a very personal place. When someone says "that's gay", everyone knows that it's not someone talking about a homosexual act but a negative, weird, and horrible act. Of course, we don't always mean for words to take on new meanings, but hey, that's the way language works. So in short, "lesbian" as an insult is truly just another attempt at ad-hom attacking by stupid, shortsighted little pricks who can't create a solid argument to save their own buttholes. Right on, sister!!! surprised
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:09 am
PhaedraMcSpiffy (I like your sig!) It's a common insult hurled at feminists and pro-choice people and, basically, any woman who refuses to be treated as an inferior. (Thank you. whee ) That's what I was thinking. I'm pretty sure calling feminists lesbians stems from anti-feminists thinking that feminists hate men so much that we aren't attracted to them, but the pro-choice thing I guess was associated with feminism. @ Enya: Heh, I don't mind the language, I call myself a dyke all the time. xd And that explanation seems to fit...a lot of people seem to think that fighting for womens' and abortion rights means that we're trying to be "like men" and that's how society views gay women. @ Katie-Kat: surprised I guess bulldyke comes from not being so feminine as to be attracted to men? I don't know, in Real World Logic it makes no sense, but in Old Misogynistic World Logic it seems to have made perfect sense. D: @ Sha: heart
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:55 pm
I hope it was only me but I've guess it's happened to other females, and this pisses me off the most (almost as much as the being called 'c**t')
Anyways. Say, I'll be in a debate about something in class with someone else, or I just get mad about something and raise my voice ( now I'm considered a very quite person 99% of the time and get yelled at to speak up so this might have something to do with it) but when I do raise my voice, or godforbid - go against the male majority, some guy always ALWAYS has to throw in the comment of "OMG WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? WHAT ARE YOU PMSING OR SOMETHING?!"
......
scream
FOR THE LOVE OF ******** GOD, AM I NOT ALLOWED TO BE MAD EVER WITHOUT BLEEDING OUT OF A ******** HOLE IN MY BODY?!
OH. AND BY THE WAY. I'M NOT ON MY PERIOD RIGHT NOW. mad
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:21 am
Oddly enough, the word c**t doesn't insult me. >.<
Trite: Yes, that has happened to me many-a-time. Despite that I may be marginally mood-swingy for a week or so beforehand, I still get mad other times. PMS just doesn't help, and guys always go on about it. "OMG CONSTANT PMS!" Etc. It's irritating. I just say "Nah, you're being a dumbass, kay?" Or words to that effect.
Or I try not to lose my temper. >.<
If we were lesbians, why would it matter to us about unwanted pregnancies?
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:48 pm
Seeing the Kraken Oddly enough, the word c**t doesn't insult me. >.< Trite: Yes, that has happened to me many-a-time. Despite that I may be marginally mood-swingy for a week or so beforehand, I still get mad other times. PMS just doesn't help, and guys always go on about it. "OMG CONSTANT PMS!" Etc. It's irritating. I just say "Nah, you're being a dumbass, kay?" Or words to that effect. Or I try not to lose my temper. >.< If we were lesbians, why would it matter to us about unwanted pregnancies?Because of our sisters? Or our mothers, aunts, nieces, and cousins? Or the random woman down the street we happen to be friends with, or potentially bisexual partners, or the idea that we might be unlucky enough to be raped? I've dated bisexual girls. I have a sixteen-year-old sister, and three nieces under the age of ten. I want them to grow up in a world where they have a choice. neutral
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:24 pm
meh, the words "c**t", "b***h", "whore", "slut", none of them phase me. sheesh, i've been called so many names working in the Taco Bell drive-thru it's not even funny anymore. i just think of how stupid the person saying them is and i feel all better. usually i laugh at them. i've never had anyone call me a lesbian because i'm pro-choice, though. derogatory terms really don't bother me at all when people throw them in my face, but if they're directing them at another woman i get irritated.
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:09 pm
Trite~Elegy Anyways. Say, I'll be in a debate about something in class with someone else, or I just get mad about something and raise my voice ( now I'm considered a very quite person 99% of the time and get yelled at to speak up so this might have something to do with it) but when I do raise my voice, or godforbid - go against the male majority, some guy always ALWAYS has to throw in the comment of "OMG WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? WHAT ARE YOU PMSING OR SOMETHING?!"
......
scream
FOR THE LOVE OF ******** GOD, AM I NOT ALLOWED TO BE MAD EVER WITHOUT BLEEDING OUT OF A ******** HOLE IN MY BODY?!
OH. AND BY THE WAY. I'M NOT ON MY PERIOD RIGHT NOW. mad Ah, fun. I know how that feels. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so goddamn pathetic. Imagine how much easier life would be for outspoken women if people understood that PMS is exaggerated and that sometimes women just get pissed off?
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:11 pm
The Indubitable Katie-Kat Seeing the Kraken Oddly enough, the word c**t doesn't insult me. >.< Trite: Yes, that has happened to me many-a-time. Despite that I may be marginally mood-swingy for a week or so beforehand, I still get mad other times. PMS just doesn't help, and guys always go on about it. "OMG CONSTANT PMS!" Etc. It's irritating. I just say "Nah, you're being a dumbass, kay?" Or words to that effect. Or I try not to lose my temper. >.< If we were lesbians, why would it matter to us about unwanted pregnancies?Because of our sisters? Or our mothers, aunts, nieces, and cousins? Or the random woman down the street we happen to be friends with, or potentially bisexual partners, or the idea that we might be unlucky enough to be raped? I've dated bisexual girls. I have a sixteen-year-old sister, and three nieces under the age of ten. I want them to grow up in a world where they have a choice. neutral You see, even pro-choice straight women do not understand what it truly feels to be a pro-choice lesbian! Muchless outsiders trying to brand all pro-choice women as lesbians! I really, really loved what Sha said on the whole matter earlier. She just too the words out of my mouth. Calling pro-choicers "Lesbian" has nothing to do with targeting actual lesbians. Lesbian is just another word passing off as "questionable woman!" This isn't to say that lesbians aren't targeted in general though.
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:14 pm
It's a common ignorant stereotype that feminists are lesbians. However, it's a little strange to hear people call pro-choicers lesbians because another common pro-life misconception is that pro-choice women are sluts who just want to sleep around and get abortions whenever they get pregnant. So, if pro-lifers think we all want abortions, yet they also assume we have sex with women . . . do they know where babies come from?
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