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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:52 pm
Just out of curiosity... what do you guys think of Israel? In your opinion, does the country have the right to exist as a Jewish state? What is your take on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, both from a religious and political POV?
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:15 pm
The country shouldn't have been created in the first place. it's created a conundrum in the region which is widely viewed as unsolvable. All this for a few million Jews to have a place to call 'home' again?
Countries get wiped out all the time. It's up to the people, in grassroots efforts, to form countries, not the UN. The UN is there to ensure peace (ideally), not create states out of parts of other states, which have always been mortal enemies of the people for which you're trying to create a state! It's a recipe for a really bad situation, as we can all plainly see now. Thoroughly unpeaceful, to boot.
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:12 pm
peoples reclaim land all the time. since it was jewish land for a long time before it was taken by the romans, babylonians, and muslims. muslims have the entire middle east to call home, why deny land that was jewish land to begin with. muslims should go where islam started. saudi arabia. judaism flurished and became the religion it is today in the land of israel. technically it should be bigger but a country the size of NJ should be good.
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:14 pm
HIMLuVa peoples reclaim land all the time. since it was jewish land for a long time before it was taken by the romans, babylonians, and muslims. muslims have the entire middle east to call home, why deny land that was jewish land to begin with. muslims should go where islam started. saudi arabia. judaism flurished and became the religion it is today in the land of israel. technically it should be bigger but a country the size of NJ should be good.
Using that kind of logic, it follows that the UN should step right in and give back all of the lands ever conquered by anyone at any time to thier "original owners", none of which can really be definitively known in the first place, because of sociological and cultural evolution, and whatnot. And that ins't feasible.
I'll bring up the example of the Armenians. From 1914 to 1918, over a million Armenians were killed by Turks, and a large majority of their lands were conquered. Did the UN give the Armenians any of their lands back? No. What's worse? Only France has made it law to deny that the event ever actually happened, let alone made attempts at reconciliation. Should the Armenians, and all other peoples who have had their lands conquered throughout history be compensated?
Having the UN create states by force is a slippery slope. Giving the Jews land, and not all the other races forges a sense of racial superiority in the favour of Jews, possibly even urging the continuation of antisemitism. Here's an excerpt from the UN Charter:UN Aims ...to prevent war, to safeguard human rights, to provide a mechanism for international law, and to promote social and economic progress, improve living standards and fight diseases.
Nowhere in there is creation of states, ESPECIALLY when they are labeled as a home state for a particular religion, Judaism in this case, to be created by force. In fact, the creation of Israel STARTED many wars in the region, which goes directly AGAINST the UN's mission statement.
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A Murder of Angels Captain
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:07 pm
Honestly, I have very mixed feelings over the existence of Israel. Yes, the land did originally belong to the Jews, a thousand and a half years ago, but they haven't been there for a thousand and a half years. That's a long time to be gone, and I can fully understand the Palestinian side of the argument... They were forced aside to make room for their enemies.
Unfortunately, the conflict was not resolved when Israel became an official state, and it has not been solved over the years since that happened. The Palestinians are pissed cause they lost their homes, and they've proven that they're not going to rest until they get them back.
Honestly, the best solution, albeit one that not many will be happy about, would be for Israel to pull out and leave the area entirely. However, since this area has been well established as a Jewish country now, there's still the problem of where they would go.
Seeing no clear solution to the problem, my stance is that I support Israel and I support continuing peace efforts between Israel and Palestine. The only hope they each have is for them to work something out, however long that may take.
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:08 am
It's all well and good to support the idea of democracy in the region, but not the way it was carried out. Israel not only exists in spite of the UN's mission statement, it used US money to fund its army not to defend itself, but to maliciously attack its neighbours (specifically Egypt, among others) in the 1950s and 60s. ALL OF THIS HAPPENING WITHOUT IT HAVING A LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO EXIST. The Zionists lobbied the UN, invaded the region, repulsed military efforts to remove them, as they did not belong there anyway, then attacked the countries themselves.
Why, again, should we support them? Because they're a liberal democracy? Because we feel sorry for the poor Jews? Because having an ally in the Middle-East is a god bargaining chip for the Western countries?
As good reasons as those are, they do not vindicate the behaviour of the still-illegitimate state of Israel's actions, or existance in the first place.
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:50 am
the UN was stupid to take land from the arabs and build a jewish state after all the conflict was inescapable giving them land and weapons was just gonna cause a problem whats next giving quebec to the natives and giving them nuclear warheads!?
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