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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:06 pm
Sensei Golden tail
This legendary Samurai has brought up a big discussion amongst my friends.
first off the card.
for 1W
get out a 2/1 Bushido 1
straightforward, means it's a 3/2 when blocking, or being blocked.
it's the other effect that confuses us.
1W T: put a training counter on target creature, that creature gains Bushido 1 and becomes a Samurai in addition to it's other creature types.
Use this ability only as a sorcery.
the problem is the training counters, and the Bushido Bonuses.
if a creature has 12 Training counters on it, would it have 12 instances of Bushido 1? and in that event, woudl it get +12/+12 when blocking or being blocked?
Theoretically it should, considering that the ability says "That creature gains Bushido 1"
However, a slightly dumb member ha gotten into a heated argument with me on that. stating that "since Samurai don't have multiple instances of Bushido, they can't stack."
Since I've run banding a little too, two creatures with Rampage 3 wouldn't have Rampage 6, but two individual instances of Rampage 3 that activate at the same time, which would equate to Rampage 6, the Ability shoudl stack.
the rela issue about why we disagree, is the Training counter, the Training counter says it Gains Bushido 1, so, does having any number of Training counters on it give it Bushido 1? or would each traiing counter activate on it's own?
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:31 pm
I do believe I've had this conversation with others before, you can have as many counters as you want, the creature will never get more than +1/+1 in battle due to them.
I'm pretty sure about this but if you want you can post the question in Yawgy's sticky in the main forum, that's what he put it there for.
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:39 pm
String_Theory I do believe I've had this conversation with others before, you can have as many counters as you want, the creature will never get more than +1/+1 in battle due to them. I'm pretty sure about this but if you want you can post the question in Yawgy's sticky in the main forum, that's what he put it there for. even judges disagree on it. the official rules don't say much. although when searching through the magic website i saw some kamigawa FaQ, and Sensei was there, thats where i got the notion of stacking, but if a high level judge thats allowed to make decisions at tournaments says otherwise, then theres a but of uncertainty. since you brouhgt up the only that single instance of Bushido, what if i put it on a creature with Bushido already? If it all stacks, then i have a question that makes more sense in this subforum, how overpowered is the Golden-tail then if it all stacks?
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:55 am
I can't find any errata on it, so I'm assuming it is just what it says. You use the ability to make one creature a samurai permanently. If it were like you were asking, I'm sure it would state it kind of like how Takeno, Samurai General does. Quote: Each other Samurai you control gets +1/+1 for each point of bushido it has.
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:13 pm
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mg144well, theres this article, at the very bottom. Quote: Takeno is nutty in his own right, but the two of them together let Golden-Tail tap to add what are essentially +1/+1 counters that each grow to +2/+2 during combat. It's unfortunate that his ability only works at sorcery speed. On the other hand, it's good that even if Golden-Tail leaves play, the trained creatures are still Samurai and still have bushido. (Heck, even if the counters are knocked off by Aether Snap or Power Conduit, the trained creatures are still Samurai and still have bushido.) So, Sensei Golden Tail adds Training counters, and the counters only remind you how much Bushido the creature has, so Power Conduit would let you turn the Training counters into +1/+1 counters and the creature would still have the Bushido 1 from the counter you just removed....supposidely and this is the article of Faq from before betrayers came out. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/jc23Quote: Q: Does Sensei Golden-Tail's Training counter stack causing the original given Bushido 1 counter to a creature in the previous turn to a Bushido 2 the second turn? If not, then if I use Golden-Tail's ability on a samurai with Bushido 2 then it is replaced with the Sensei's Bushido 1 counter right? –Sam A: Sensei Golden-Tail's ability, not the counter, grants bushido, and the ability is cumulative (though there will be multiple triggers). The training counter throws off many people. The only thing the training counter does is remind you which creatures have been to SGT's dojo. When the Sensei trains a creature it gains bushido 1 and becomes a Samurai. Training a creature that already has bushido means you wind up with a creature that has bushido multiple times. So a creature with “Bushido 2” would have “Bushido 2, bushido 1”. This causes two triggers, one per bushido, but the final result is a total bonus of +3/+3 So, Sensei Golden-tail, is a sick card it appears.
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:52 pm
Back when Kamigawa first came out, a friend of mine was building a Kitsune deck, and he recieved my Golden-Tail in a trade. No sooner than he could shuffle his deck, he asked me if his ability would stack, so I looked it up.
I don't remember where I found it, but I did manage to find a rule saying that his counters DID stack. I discussed it with him back then and with my new Magic group now, and we all agree with the ruling in that it should stack, so that's how we've always played it.
-Kurocyn
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