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lymelady
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:46 am


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They'll murder babies but they won't kill me. That is the sentiment expressed. Those words aren't my description of abortion...they're words from a deathrow inmate whose death is being pushed back. The thing is, he wants to die.

Quote:
Allen Holman's execution is one of five on hold in North Carolina, where the state medical board has threatened to punish any doctor who takes part in an execution.

"Why do they have a problem? They perform abortions, murder babies all the time," Holman told The Associated Press in an interview at the state's Central Prison. "They all of a sudden got conscience about their Hippocratic oath."


Do you think he's right? Do you think that he's wrong? Not about the murdering babies part, that's extremely emotional speak, but about the medical board deciding when a doctor should not be permitted to perform a legal killing? Does it make any difference that the death sentence was ordered by the state? Should doctors be held to the medical board's morals and not the state's, and shouldn't this be a non-issue since the medical board is regulated by the state?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:53 am


Okay. I am still in agreement with the death penalty. I always will be, its one of those things that I feel are necessary for the men and women who ae so far gone and so far depraived that the best way of dealing with them (if extensive counseling and rehabilitation attempts fail) is to simply let them go. I feel the death penalty though should be reserved for those who show an unwillingness in prison as well as society..IE, they pose a threat to the lives of EVERY ONE.

Now, yes, I feel a doctor who has medical knowledge of the chemicals being used should preform the exception IF HE/SHE WANTS TO. If I were to be executed, and I came to accept that my death was immanent, I would rather have some one with knowledge about the saline solutions being used administer the process. Much like, with abortions. Even though its a great evil in my opnoin, I would rather have someone experienced, then some half-job they pulled in off the street a few weeks ago.

Tiger of the Fire


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:24 am


There is a difference I think. Mainly because he wants to die, it's his body I see no reason to disallow him from this option. However a fetus has no choice or say in the matter, it's simple victim to the whims of the mother.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:26 am


That wasnt the question being asked XP

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La Veuve Zin

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:32 am


I think it's funny how people on death row are prevented from committing suicide.

Not funny in a "ha-ha" way, rather funny in a nauseatingly hypocritical way.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:47 am


Tiger of the Fire
That wasnt the question being asked XP

But you can't really compare the two, when they're two seperate issues really. I mean if he DIDN'T want to die that would be a completely different story, however then you still have the issue of he has probably killed someone so that's justification in someone's eyes. Or to other people he's not violating bodily domain so he shouldn't be killed, in their eyes.

It's really a pointless question because it all comes back to the question "at what point do we have the right to decide life and death for other people?"

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Tiger of the Fire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:54 am


Hmmm, true.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:18 pm


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But it isn't about when we decide people live or die, that's already been decided. It's about whether the medical board has the right to tell doctors they'll be punished for doing something that's legal, and in this case, state-ordered They aren't comparable in the sense that, "Do they have the right to kill this person." They are in the sense that, "Does an organization have the right to punish some legal killings and not punish others." The law has already decided who has the right to live and who can be killed; it's not up to the medical board to decide that. Should they be pushing their own morals, going against the law's moral standards, and persecuting doctors who kill within the law in some cases but not in other cases?
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lymelady
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Tiger of the Fire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:38 pm


The diffrence here as well is that one is written as a person, the other is not. Thats what they may be looking at.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:43 pm


I disagree with the death penalty, and I'm glad it doesn't exist where I live (England). However, in essence what this guy is saying is that he wants to be euthanised, which IS illegal. He no longer wants to be alive, and the law prevents him from doing that. So, while it seems cruel to keep him alive if he doesn't want to be, the law prevents people who are in pain and agony from doing the same thing - why not a murderer? He was given the death penalty by law, so the law should decide when it is carried out.

I don't think the medical board should really have a say in whether doctors execute these prisoners or not. These are people sentenced to death, not patients who need to be saved.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:04 pm


I was just having practically this conversation with my sister's girlfriend the other day. She said something that I feel is very true:
Quote:
You can either have executions, or you can have a fair judicial system, but not both.

That is, that you can have a system where crimes are punished by death, and deter people from breaking the law (while usually making very few laws -- I have heard that this is what Greece does). Or you can have a system where there are many laws, and each individual criminal is given a punishment (usually jail time) which is individually assigned based on his crimes.

I feel that death row is not a very good thing. Most inmates have years of appeals, and it is very costly to house them during this time. Executions are also very expensive (I know that using the electric chair costs more than keeping an inmate alive forever in prison). I also feel that it is a better punishment to keep someone alive and imprisoned than to kill them -- as death just isn't long enough for them to suffer.

However, as was previously stated, I do feel that people should be allowed to choose to die. And I believe that doctors should be allowed to (help) kill those who want to die. Wasn't that the original question?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:41 pm


La Veuve Zin
I think it's funny how people on death row are prevented from committing suicide.

Not funny in a "ha-ha" way, rather funny in a nauseatingly hypocritical way.


What's funny in a "ha-ha" way, is that in England, back in the 1500's and what not, it was illegal to commit suicide. The punishment for attempted suicide was death.

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lymelady
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:54 pm


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Not really...the original question was whether or not the medical board should be allowed to persecute doctors for doing something legally.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:03 pm


The board is essentially taking a stand against capital punishment--and in this case, even against assisted suicide. I wouldn't *quite* call it hypocritical that they aren't taking a stand against abortion, because there are significant differences, but still, I think they should do that too.

I should point out that even though I believe in doctor-assisted suicide (your body, your choice, given sound mind), I wouldn't help this guy. I'm guessing he wants to die because he feels guilty, or is depressed over being incarcerated. In either case, he could benefit from counseling.

I'm glad it was pointed out that combination-drug suicide/execution is stupid. Nobody needs paralytics, just a triple dose of morphine. It's the most peaceful way to die, in fact, so many people die from heroin ODs because they don't even try to stop themselves when they know they've ODed--they're at total peace and are accepting of death. People using with them often don't notice either because you just pass out quietly and stop breathing. No heart attack, no convulsions, no pain.

Whatever the law is, though, it's not an independent body's duty to follow it--they can protest.

I believe in California, some time ago, an execution had to be delayed because no physician in the state would agree to participate, and one had to be present.

La Veuve Zin

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Pro-Life/Pro-Choice Discussion

 
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