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 Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:28 am
I watched The Elephant Man not too long ago, the original with John Hurt. For those of you who do not know, The Elephant Man is the true story about a man named John Merrick who was so deformed 'the elephant man' became his nickname. I couldn't help but remember Erik, as I am sure those of you who have seen it thought about also. The part in the Elephant Man when John Merrick meets the wife of the doctor who helped him and he started to cry simply because she was polite to him, and he said he had never been treated so kindly by a pretty woman, immediately made me think of Christine kissing Erik in the end of the novel.
Both of their lives, Erik's and John Merrick's, mimick each other very closely. And, while it is controversal to claim this about Erik, both stories are about real people. Yes, there is no direct proof Erik had lived but I believe he did in one sense or another. John Merrick and Erik both die after becoming the happiest they ever have in the lives (which they both find to be is simply being treated as any other human being) and both had very bitter-sweet lives.
So I couldn't help but wonder, why is it that the ones shunned from society always suffer so much? Especially those deformed? Has anyone else made connections like this, based off of real life in very least, which can be connected to PoTO? Share here.
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:51 pm
Wasn't that a David Lynch movie?
He lost all credibility in my eyes after Eraserhead, though that movie is still a bit of a guilty pleasure just because it's so creepy.
And the reason for it is very simple: People fear what they do not know or understand. People fear differences. It is why wars start, it is why people are ostracized. It's all the same thing, psychologically.
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:36 pm
It also has a biological point of view. Deformity often means disease in nature so we evolved a natural instinct to shun those who are deformed for our own safety.
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:23 am
I'm not so sure if either of those are true. I mean, they sound entirely logical and may indeed make up some of the illogic of people who feel in such away about deformity. But John Merrick was not threatening to anyone, if not pitiful. How could someone be scared of such a gentle person? I can understand if people fear Erik. He did kill after all, but in his own defense, of a sort.
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:11 am
Kira the wanderer I'm not so sure if either of those are true. I mean, they sound entirely logical and may indeed make up some of the illogic of people who feel in such away about deformity. But John Merrick was not threatening to anyone, if not pitiful. How could someone be scared of such a gentle person? I can understand if people fear Erik. He did kill after all, but in his own defense, of a sort. I suppose it's the time period. Not too long ago, those who were physically imperfect were thought to be sin made human. They were unclean demons who did not deserve life and instead were feared and hated. Now a days, people hate them just because they're ugly.
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:23 am
Utakan Kira the wanderer I'm not so sure if either of those are true. I mean, they sound entirely logical and may indeed make up some of the illogic of people who feel in such away about deformity. But John Merrick was not threatening to anyone, if not pitiful. How could someone be scared of such a gentle person? I can understand if people fear Erik. He did kill after all, but in his own defense, of a sort. I suppose it's the time period. Not too long ago, those who were physically imperfect were thought to be sin made human. They were unclean demons who did not deserve life and instead were feared and hated. Now a days, people hate them just because they're ugly. I can understand the time period thing. But I don't think the modern world has any excuse at all. John Merrick lived after Erik did, a bit more modern but it still had the same ethics... Today should be different.
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:10 pm
Kira the wanderer Utakan Kira the wanderer I'm not so sure if either of those are true. I mean, they sound entirely logical and may indeed make up some of the illogic of people who feel in such away about deformity. But John Merrick was not threatening to anyone, if not pitiful. How could someone be scared of such a gentle person? I can understand if people fear Erik. He did kill after all, but in his own defense, of a sort. I suppose it's the time period. Not too long ago, those who were physically imperfect were thought to be sin made human. They were unclean demons who did not deserve life and instead were feared and hated. Now a days, people hate them just because they're ugly. I can understand the time period thing. But I don't think the modern world has any excuse at all. John Merrick lived after Erik did, a bit more modern but it still had the same ethics... Today should be different. John Merrick wasn't from today, though. He was still in the time period of the unexplained and unordinary being feared and hated.
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:42 pm
And again I point out the human psychology aspect of the fear, as well as referencing the mention of the biological aspect. Fear of deformity is pretty much wired into many people for no reason other than basal instinct. You can't blame people's initial response any more than you can blame the deformed person for wanting to belong.
Being mean afterward, however, that is another story.
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:02 pm
Kira the wanderer I'm not so sure if either of those are true. I mean, they sound entirely logical and may indeed make up some of the illogic of people who feel in such away about deformity. But John Merrick was not threatening to anyone, if not pitiful. How could someone be scared of such a gentle person? I can understand if people fear Erik. He did kill after all, but in his own defense, of a sort. Have you seen a picture of him? sweatdrop He was very scary looking.. I know I'd be kind to him but just.. imagine him touching you.. This is in no way insulting to him, I believe he was a very, and he must have been a very kind person but.. I feel so sorry for the poor guy.. I was looking up stuff about him a few weeks ago actually.. poor thing..
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:37 pm
I know! And he seemed like he was pretty awesome, too.
It pisses me off how people can be such animals and treat someone so horribly because of an initial basal reaction. The idea behind society is to control that.
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:57 pm
Thorn Venatrix And again I point out the human psychology aspect of the fear, as well as referencing the mention of the biological aspect. Fear of deformity is pretty much wired into many people for no reason other than basal instinct. You can't blame people's initial response any more than you can blame the deformed person for wanting to belong. Being mean afterward, however, that is another story. As they say, the first impression is always the strongest and throughout time it has been shown that physical appearance is ALWAYS the first impression. You can't blame them, but you can blame how they act even after they get to know the person.
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:54 pm
I pretty much agree with what Thorn and Uta have said. Your brain has an instinct to keep you away from things that seem sickly or potentially dangerous. It's just unfortunate that some otherwise normal people have problems that trigger this instinct. But after the initial reaction you have a choice: overcome it and treat the person with respect or let it dictate you and shun that which seems threatening. The choice of being human or animal, basically. Kira the wanderer I can understand the time period thing. But I don't think the modern world has any excuse at all. John Merrick lived after Erik did, a bit more modern but it still had the same ethics... Today should be different. Here I have to nudge you off-topic, but it can't be helped... Actually, Erik and Joseph's (it was Joseph, not John. When the doctor who found him wrote his memoirs he mistakenly called him John, but Merrick's own letters say Joseph) time periods overlapped pretty closely. Merrick lived 1862-1890, and, if you go by Leroux, Erik could have died as late as 1896 or so. I've always liked to imagine them meeting. Another thought... Leroux was a French journalist when Merrick was the 'it' thing in Europe. He would have known about him. Maybe the reason they seem to share so many sufferings- being shunned into running away from home at an early age, traveling in a freak show, lurid nicknames (The Elephant Man and The Living Corpse), being profoundly touched by an act of kindness frorm a woman- is because Erik is, in parts, based on him.
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:50 am
Rhyala Kira the wanderer I'm not so sure if either of those are true. I mean, they sound entirely logical and may indeed make up some of the illogic of people who feel in such away about deformity. But John Merrick was not threatening to anyone, if not pitiful. How could someone be scared of such a gentle person? I can understand if people fear Erik. He did kill after all, but in his own defense, of a sort. Have you seen a picture of him? sweatdrop He was very scary looking.. I know I'd be kind to him but just.. imagine him touching you.. This is in no way insulting to him, I believe he was a very, and he must have been a very kind person but.. I feel so sorry for the poor guy.. I was looking up stuff about him a few weeks ago actually.. poor thing.. I have seen a picture of him, perhaps it was because I was expecting much worse, and did not think twice about it. I did not get the image of scary, really caring less of him touching me though. I mean, its not like he's a disaese ridden animal. I dunno, maybe I am just too used to such things by now. @phantomofthefox: I wasn't sure which was his name, Joseph or John so I went with the movie. But I did not think about that. I thought, I am not sure why now, that Joseph Merrick has lived several years after Erik, such as during the time period after the novel had been out. It would be interesting to think that Erik and Joseph Merrick were one and the same person. Though, who was the one woman who was kind to Joseph? (Other than the doctor's wife?)
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:12 pm
That was Leila Maturin. She was a widow friend of Treves', and he asked her to come and meet Merrick in order to get him more accustomed to women. That was the famous account where Merrick broke down crying after she left because no woman had ever spoken to him nicely or shaken his hand before.
The movie and the play give her part to Madge Kendall, the famous actress Merrick gave his model church to. The two of them never actually met, though. He had seen her perform and built it in the hopes of her coming to see him, but instead she sent someone to pick it up.
From what I've read, Joseph Merrick and Leila Maturin became good friends. His only surviving letter is to her, thanking her for some gifts she had sent him.
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:07 am
PhantomoftheFox That was Leila Maturin. She was a widow friend of Treves', and he asked her to come and meet Merrick in order to get him more accustomed to women. That was the famous account where Merrick broke down crying after she left because no woman had ever spoken to him nicely or shaken his hand before. The movie and the play give her part to Madge Kendall, the famous actress Merrick gave his model church to. The two of them never actually met, though. He had seen her perform and built it in the hopes of her coming to see him, but instead she sent someone to pick it up. From what I've read, Joseph Merrick and Leila Maturin became good friends. His only surviving letter is to her, thanking her for some gifts she had sent him. You are very well informed, thank you for sharing that. I can see even more similarities between Erik and Joseph Merrick now with this information. It is unfortunate that the movie did not stay close to the actual events.
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