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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:39 pm
(I had to keep the title really vague so I didn't spoil anything..)I'm not so sure Morzan is actually Eragon's father... I mean sure Murtagh said that, but his only reasoning is that the Twins figured it out... I've got some interesting evidence to support it, too. I found it when I was re-reading Eragon. There are other things too, but I find this the most interesting. (copied and pasted from another post)
I was re-reading Eragon when I found something interesting relating to Morzan, Brom and Eragon. Recently I've been finding all sorts of things that point to Brom being Eragon's father, despite what the Twins and Murtagh say. Here's the quote (from the story Murtagh told about his past): "... three years passed like this, during which time he gave me the... scar on my back." Alright, so this says that Murtagh was 3 years old. After that, says this: "As soon as he (Morzan) departed (to get Saphira's egg), my mother, who had been left behind, vanished. No one knows where she went, or why." So, this says that after Murtagh was 3, Selena left, presumably to give birth to Eragon based on evidence from the second book. Here's the catch though: "Escaped is more like it. At my last birthday, when I turned eighteen, the king summoned me to...." There's the catch. If Eragon is sixteen (it says when he travels with Murtagh to Gil Ead that his sixteenth birthday passed), shouldn't Murtagh be 19 if he was 3 when Eragon was born? That strikes me as suspicious... I don't think Paolini would have made that kind of error if he bothered to write out this whole thing about Selena. Everywhere else, he's been very good at the crucial details. That was very interesting when I read it... I think something is going to come up in the third book about this. That would be a pretty good twist if Morzan actually wasn't Eragon's father..
There were things supporting Brom being Eragon's father as well.For one, he "knew Selena well enough to miss her when she was gone." It was also said that "He loved a woman, but it was his affection that was her undoing."
what do you guys think? Do you think Morzan is actually Eragon's father?
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:57 pm
There are all sorts of odd things like that that happen even in real life. At one time, two people can be separated by two year, the next day, by three. Perhaps his birthday in that year had not come yet? I don't see how this points to brom being Eragon's father, but I am sure there is much more other evidence, including stuff that is not exactly written in the story.
I say Morzan is not in fact, Eragon's father, and I have so many reasons..one is that Selena ran off, appeared at Carvahall dressed like a noblewoman, gave birth, named Eragon, ran off again and got back to Murtagh sick and dying.
2. Brom chose Carvahall to hide. Why there? If he was in hiding, why tell the tale of the Dragon Riders? Why show interest in Eragon?
3. Broms Last Words. He gave Eragon a blessing, like from father to son
4. Brom's Dragon was blue, and called Saphira. Eragon's Dragon is blue and called Saphira. Morzan's Dragon was Red. Murtagh's Dragon is red. Inheritance anyone?
5. In the deluxe version of Eldest, there is a list of all the characters. It calls Eragon 'son of Selena, grandson of Cadoc, Firesword, Shadeslayer' but mentions nothing of his father. Of Murtagh, it says clearly ' son of Selena, son of Morzan'.
And there's more. There's much more.
Personally, I think this thread should be called "[THRY] Eragon's father?"
Or even, Eragon! I am your father!
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:12 am
isidar_mithram There are all sorts of odd things like that that happen even in real life. At one time, two people can be separated by two year, the next day, by three. Perhaps his birthday in that year had not come yet? I don't see how this points to brom being Eragon's father, but I am sure there is much more other evidence, including stuff that is not exactly written in the story. I say Morzan is not in fact, Eragon's father, and I have so many reasons..one is that Selena ran off, appeared at Carvahall dressed like a noblewoman, gave birth, named Eragon, ran off again and got back to Murtagh sick and dying. 2. Brom chose Carvahall to hide. Why there? If he was in hiding, why tell the tale of the Dragon Riders? Why show interest in Eragon? 3. Broms Last Words. He gave Eragon a blessing, like from father to son 4. Brom's Dragon was blue, and called Saphira. Eragon's Dragon is blue and called Saphira. Morzan's Dragon was Red. Murtagh's Dragon is red. Inheritance anyone? 5. In the deluxe version of Eldest, there is a list of all the characters. It calls Eragon 'son of Selena, grandson of Cadoc, Firesword, Shadeslayer' but mentions nothing of his father. Of Murtagh, it says clearly ' son of Selena, son of Morzan'. And there's more. There's much more. Personally, I think this thread should be called "[THRY] Eragon's father?" Or even, Eragon! I am your father! Yeah, but I didn't want to put any assumptions in anyone's head. While the title wouldn't actually give the plot point away that way, people would be free to guess at the truth.
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:38 pm
But all the theories here are about Eragon..people don't know what your thread is about, just that it;s a theory..ah well.
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:09 pm
Copied from shurtugal.com
Hear me out on this one. A lot of you are screaming one very misinformed and meaningless thing right now: "Murtagh said that Morzan was his father in the ancient language, and since you can’t lie in the ancient language, Morzan must be his father!" However, this is not at all true, and in reality Morzan is not Eragon’s father. It is Brom.
First, you must understand that it is possible to tell an untruth in the ancient language. You see, just because Murtagh said it in the AL doesn't mean that it's true, just that he believed it was true. That was the entire reason Eragon wrote a poem for the Agaeti Blodhren: so Islanzadi could tell Eragon that it was possible to tell untruths in the AL, if you really believed that they were true. So because Murtagh has seen no evidence showing that Eragon could not also be a son of Morzan, and because they do share a mother, he believes that Eragon was also the son of Morzan.
Now, for the extensive evidence:
P. 546
"Son and Father alike, both blind as bats".
This is about betrayal. Brom was blind to Morzan's betrayal, and Eragon was blind to Murtagh's betrayal.
Consider this quote from page 280 of Eldest: (Oromis) "Morzan was my greatest failure. Brom idolized him. He never left his side, never contradicted him, and never believed that he could best Morzan in any venture. Morzan, I'm ashamed to admit-for it was within my power to stop-was aware of this and took advantage of Brom's devotion in a hundred different ways. He grew so proud and cruel that I considered separating him from Brom. But before I could, Morzan helped Galbatorix to steal a dragon hatchling, Shruikan, to replace the one Galbatorix had lost, killing the dragon's original rider in the process. Morzan and Galbatorix then fled together, sealing our doom."
"You cannot begin to fathom the effect Morzan's betrayal had on Brom until you understand the depth of Brom's affection for him. And when Galbatorix at last revealed himself and the Forsworn killed Brom's dragon, Brom focused all of his anger and pain on the one who he felt was responsible for the destruction of his world: Morzan."
I think that sums it up.
Riddle #3 - This is the most important one
p. 546
"While two may share two,
And one of two is certainly one,
One might be two."
While two sons (Eragon and Murtagh) "may" share the same two parents (Morzan and Selena), And one parent of two parents, the Mother-Selena, is certainly the same one parent of both sons,
One parent, the Father, might be two Fathers (Brom and Morzan) each having one of the sons.
What in the world could this riddle be about if it doesn't support the two-father theory?
One last fact: Blagden never met Morzan so he could not have been talking about him. Morzan was never blind. He knew exactly what he was doing. He was after power. Brom was the only one who was blind by his insane idolization of Morzan.
Eragon pages 281-282:
While they spoke, Saphira crawled into the cave and greeted Eragon. She was glad to see him, but there was deep sadness in her thoughts and words. She laid her big blue head on the floor and asked, "Are you well again?"
"Not quite."
"I miss the old one."
"As do I... I never suspected that he was a rider. Brom! He really was an old man - as old as the Forsworn. Everything he taught me about magic he must have learned from the riders themselves."
Saphira shifted slightly. "I knew what he was the moment he touched me at your farm."
"And you didn't tell me? Why?"
"He asked me not to," she said simply.
Eragon decided not to make an issue of it. Saphira never meant to hurt him. "Brom kept more than that secret," he told her, then explained about Zar'roc and Murtagh's reaction to it. "I understand now why Brom didn't explain Zar'roc's origins when he gave it to me. If he had, I probably would have run away from him at the first opportunity."
"You would do well to rid yourself of that sword," she said with distaste. "I know it's a peerless weapon, but you would be better off with a normal blade rather than Morzan's butchery tool."
"Perhaps. Saphira, where does our path go from here? Murtagh offered to come with us. I don't know his past, but he seems honest enough. Should we go to the Varden now? Only I don't know how to find them. Brom never told us."
"He told me," said Saphira.
Eragon grew angry. "Why did he trust you, but not me, with all this knowledge?"
Her scales rustled over the dry rock as she stood above him, eyes profound. "After we left Teirm and were attacked by the Urgals, he told me many things, some of which I will not speak of unless necessary. He was concerned about his own death and what would happen to you after it. One fact he imparted to me was the name of a man, Dormnad, who lives in Gil'ead. He can help us find the Varden. Brom also wanted you to know that of all the people in Alagaesia, he believed you were the best suited to inherit the Riders' legacy." Tears welled in Eragon's eyes. This was the highest praise he could have ever received from Brom. "A responsibility I will bear honorably."
"Good."
Clearly Brom has told Saphira of things that he wouldn't want revealed to Eragon until he is mature enough. Eragon would undoubtedly be distraught enough after losing his mentor, and to find out that Brom is also his father would completely confuse and demoralize him at a time when survival is paramount.
Eldest page 656:
Saphira ruffled his hair with a gust of hot breath. "Just remember, whatever Brom's reasons, he always tried to protect us from danger. He died saving you from the Ra'zac."
"I know.... Do you think he didn't tell me about this because he was afraid I might emulate Morzan, like Murtagh has?"
"Of course not."
He looked at her, curious. "How can you be so certain?" She lifted her head high above him and refused to meet his eyes or to answer. "Have it your way, then."
This is an enormously important quote. Saphira is waiting to tell Oromis/Glaedr (she might have done so already) about Brom being Eragon's father. I think it's a sure bet that Oromis will be the one to tell Eragon the truth. Just like in Book 1, Saphira knows that Eragon isn't quite mature enough to receive this information.
Plus, if you look at it from a logistical standpoint, you'll notice two things: 1) Inheritance is a coming-of-age story/trilogy, and Eragon shouldn't (and hasn't) come of age by the end of the second book and 2) Christopher Paolini just dropped a huge bombshell a mere 4 pages ago that Morzan is Eragon's father - that would be absolutely horrendous writing to reveal something like that and then change it 4 pages later. This "revelation" is the big twist at the end of the novel. It's just that we'll find out that it wasn't really a twist after all.
There is a chapter in Eldest titled "Inheritance." In it, Murtagh takes Zar'roc from Eragon and claims it as his inheritance. This conveniently leaves Eragon without a sword. In the third book Eragon will get his inheritance and his proper rider's sword (meaning that it matches the color of his dragon).
We are never told what happens to Brom's sword. It is only mentioned indirectly when Eragon converses with the elf sword maker Rhunon. She mentions that there are only two of her swords left (other than Morzan's and Oromis'), and they happen to each be held by two elven families. One is Brom's, and the other is likely a green sword that will go to the rider of the green dragon.
This makes Brom’s sword Eragon’s inheritance, and this is the Inheritance Trilogy, after all.
However, there are some other questions that must still be answered. For example, why, if Brom was Eragon’s father, would he not raise his own son while both live in Carvahall? And why would Brom never tell Eragon that he was his father?
In response to those two questions: there was no evidence whatsoever to imply that Eragon would be a rider in his early life. Brom was there in Carvahall to watch over him, and he did teach his son all about the old ways. When Eragon went to Brom's to ask him questions about the riders Brom answered all of his questions. One of the best ways to teach is through stories, and in order to have Eragon learn more he had to be interested in riders and their history. I also think that if Brom said that he was Eragon's father and a Rider, Eragon would be a whole lot less likely to believe that the riders really did exist and that they had fallen. If you're told that all of the riders are dead, except that this ordinary storyteller that everyone's known for 15 years is one, the stories would be a whole lot less credible.
There's also the fact that if Brom told Eragon that he was his father, other people in Carvahall would probably find out and word of it might leak back to Galbatorix. If Galbatorix found out that the last remaining rider and his son were living in Carvahall, I believe he would have left Uru'baen and gone out to destroy the village.
Thirdly, if Eragon knew that Brom was his father, he could possibly reveal it when someone enters his head (like the twins) and the odds were reasonable (and it actually happened in the book) that the one(s) who find out that Eragon is Brom's son worked for Galbatorix. If Galbatorix found out that the newest rider that wasn't under his control was the son of Brom, he would have to assume that he was raised by Brom, and was the beneficiary of a lifetime of teaching by Brom. Since we know Brom was powerful and strong enough to have a hand in the deaths of eight of the Forsworn, his lifetime knowledge passed down to his son would make Eragon a much more deadly enemy than if Eragon was raised by a random farmer and never had any contact with Brom. If Galbatorix believed that Eragon was Brom's son, he himself would have flown to the battle at the end of Eldest, and it would have been a forgone conclusion.
And the big question: if Brom is indeed Eragon’s father, then how on earth would he and Selena have a chance to "make" Eragon?
The potential for an affair comes to mind, or for a king Arthur-type situation. Or, as we don’t know exactly how long Selena was missing from the castle ("many months" is a very unclear length of time), she could have met Brom and fallen in love with him after running from the castle. Bear in mind that around the time of Selena’s disappearance, Morzan was off searching for Saphira’s egg, which had just been stolen, so would not have been around the castle or seeing Selena at any time. And that give Brom ample opportunity to see her.
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:51 pm
wow.. there are NO doubts in my mind at all now (I even only read the first two so far) that Brom is Eragon's father... There is an overwhelming amount of evidence... (not even Phoenix Wright could object!). The good thing (for us) is, this is a plot twist I have never seen before in my life (though I don't read all THAT much, I do play a lot of games and watch a lot of movies..) I think this is a twist that even the anti-fans would be surprised by..
(spoilers, I guess I should say)
On that note, I really hope the weapon under the tree is the first Eragon's or Vrael's... just because they're expecting Brom's sword to be there.. I really want this next book to at least lighten their hatred of the first two... Then we won't be persecuted for being fans.. *sigh*
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:40 am
wow all the theories set in here are absolutely awesome i agree completely w/ all of you that eragon could not be the son of morzan. but you never know still paolini.. will just have to give us an anwser in the last book. lol mrgreen
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:52 pm
but brom cannot possibly be eragons father because he was a eunuch from the age of five, when he was sworn to serve a peguin in coat tails named filo pastry who is also a eunuch. Eragon's father, is in reality arya, which is why he likes her so much, but cannot put his finger on why.
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Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:34 am
Timelady42 but brom cannot possibly be eragons father because he was a eunuch from the age of five, when he was sworn to serve a peguin in coat tails named filo pastry who is also a eunuch. Eragon's father, is in reality arya, which is why he likes her so much, but cannot put his finger on why. wow i wish i had your knowledge.. haha and sense of humor!! mrgreen
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Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:45 am
isidar_mithram 2. Brom chose Carvahall to hide. Why there? If he was in hiding, why tell the tale of the Dragon Riders? Why show interest in Eragon? why show interest in eragon? the adult version of eragon: oh, eragonikins, I love you so much! y...yami? yugi? OH MY GOD! so that's why i was attracted to you so much!
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:08 am
I have to say I'm not buying. I still believe Morzan is Eragon's father. Why would Chris make this revelation and then oull it away. I can't see that and surely "I am your father" would have been in there with "I am a rider". Plus we don't have any proof that the dragon colour is inheritance, it's just a theory on one founding, Thorn and Morzons dragons were both red, so what. I just can't see this happening
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:42 pm
anonomous angel I have to say I'm not buying. I still believe Morzan is Eragon's father. Why would Chris make this revelation and then oull it away. I can't see that and surely "I am your father" would have been in there with "I am a rider". Plus we don't have any proof that the dragon colour is inheritance, it's just a theory on one founding, Thorn and Morzons dragons were both red, so what. I just can't see this happening to build on to your theory.. morzan and murtagh have red dragons but why is eragons dragon blue.. wasnt broms dragon blue.. maybe not but i thought i saw it in the book somewhere
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:58 am
Brom loved Eragon since they hadn't been traveling that long together he must of loved him like a son for a very long time and Brom knew before he died he had to do something very fatherlike so when someone tells Eragon Brom is his father he'll think back and realize he treated him kind of like a son for a long time and died for him.
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:06 pm
mibuwolfX (I had to keep the title really vague so I didn't spoil anything..)I'm not so sure Morzan is actually Eragon's father... I mean sure Murtagh said that, but his only reasoning is that the Twins figured it out... I've got some interesting evidence to support it, too. I found it when I was re-reading Eragon. There are other things too, but I find this the most interesting. (copied and pasted from another post) I was re-reading Eragon when I found something interesting relating to Morzan, Brom and Eragon. Recently I've been finding all sorts of things that point to Brom being Eragon's father, despite what the Twins and Murtagh say. Here's the quote (from the story Murtagh told about his past): "... three years passed like this, during which time he gave me the... scar on my back." Alright, so this says that Murtagh was 3 years old. After that, says this: "As soon as he (Morzan) departed (to get Saphira's egg), my mother, who had been left behind, vanished. No one knows where she went, or why." So, this says that after Murtagh was 3, Selena left, presumably to give birth to Eragon based on evidence from the second book. Here's the catch though: "Escaped is more like it. At my last birthday, when I turned eighteen, the king summoned me to...." There's the catch. If Eragon is sixteen (it says when he travels with Murtagh to Gil Ead that his sixteenth birthday passed), shouldn't Murtagh be 19 if he was 3 when Eragon was born? That strikes me as suspicious... I don't think Paolini would have made that kind of error if he bothered to write out this whole thing about Selena. Everywhere else, he's been very good at the crucial details. That was very interesting when I read it... I think something is going to come up in the third book about this. That would be a pretty good twist if Morzan actually wasn't Eragon's father.. There were things supporting Brom being Eragon's father as well.For one, he "knew Selena well enough to miss her when she was gone." It was also said that "He loved a woman, but it was his affection that was her undoing." what do you guys think? Do you think Morzan is actually Eragon's father? that's wat i figured but i'm writing bout it in my fan fiction...... scream i m never gonna be done b 4 the third book though
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:27 pm
one peice of evidence i just realized you are all over looking is that brom was gone on that egg fewd too. Unlesss.....msg me n i'lll ell ya the rest. it's a secret
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