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 Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:55 pm
^.^ hee hee how the title amuses me. 4laugh
Okay so now on a serious point ninja
Okay so Lately I've been kind of bothered, by some things.
I read this book by Gershom (sp?) Jewish Tales About Reincarnation. Very good book if anyone wants to read it.
Okay anywho back to my point.
My point is we all know chasidic people buy into the whole people are reincarnated stuff. They have this idea of a hall of exchange where dead peoples souls check in are judged and either go to heaven, gehen( i know it's spelt wrong) basicly hell, or back to earth for reincarnation.
They exknowledge how there are mess up and people go to the wrong body. So then why don't they like converts!
What's the excuse for this mix up?
I mean is there something how if you're a jewish soul born to a goy body you loose all rights to claim the religion your heart so desparately clings to?
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:59 pm
I mean I know lots of converts and jews dont' like the chassidic movement, but maybe it's just I got the lucky straw and my first taste was a good taste, but I happen to love the movement. I think it's one of the beautiful things in judaism.
But with the same breath it angers me beyond words that they don't accept converts, the whole them cutting off converts from the mikveh's in florida angered me. It wanted me to just say not nice words, and I'm not talking curse words either.
I want answers and I am given none.
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:34 pm
You'd probably really have to ask a Chasidic Jew, for all I know, I'm blowing smoke out my nose. sweatdrop But here goes:
This is interesting. You'd think that of all people, the Jews would embrace tolerance more than anyone. Of course, the Chasidics are a close knit people. It's understandle that they wouldn't want any goyim that walks through the Judaic doors to join their sect, but to say no converts at all, that's unfair.
I haven't read in to this particular sect, I plan on converting to Orthodox, so I would not know if they are really that strict about it. I mean, this will sound completely retarded, but Matisyahu was raised Reform, so technically he had to convert. Is it different for people who are already Jewish? I don't see why it would be.
I guess the thing to do is just to respect their wishes. I can understand where you're coming from, and yeah, it sucks that you can't join where you want to join, but they have a reason for this rule that is, perhaps, much bigger than the surface would have you believe.
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:38 am
kingpinsqeezels Matisyahu was raised Reform, so technically he had to convert. Is it different for people who are already Jewish? I don't see why it would be. except he didn't have to "convert". he was still jewish, even if non-religious. Quote: but they have a reason for this rule that is, perhaps, much bigger than the surface would have you believe. not really. but i'll get to that though it's nice to see some dam l'chaf s'chus.
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:40 am
i think maybe this thread needs a title change.
it's a good topic though.
@naphtali: i think an explanation on gra/baal shem tov is in order
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:51 am
ZonkotheSane kingpinsqeezels Matisyahu was raised Reform, so technically he had to convert. Is it different for people who are already Jewish? I don't see why it would be. except he didn't have to "convert". he was still jewish, even if non-religious. Quote: but they have a reason for this rule that is, perhaps, much bigger than the surface would have you believe. not really. but i'll get to that though it's nice to see some dam l'chaf s'chus. I have an idea as to what that means, but tell me anyway. But like I said, I was probably blowing smoke out of my nose, I still don't know much. neutral
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:53 am
kingpinsqeezels ZonkotheSane kingpinsqeezels Matisyahu was raised Reform, so technically he had to convert. Is it different for people who are already Jewish? I don't see why it would be. except he didn't have to "convert". he was still jewish, even if non-religious. Quote: but they have a reason for this rule that is, perhaps, much bigger than the surface would have you believe. not really. but i'll get to that though it's nice to see some dam l'chaf s'chus. I have an idea as to what that means, but tell me anyway. But like I said, I was probably blowing smoke out of my nose, I still don't know much. neutral i know several terms more appropriate in some ways and less in others than "blowing smoke". "dam l'kaf s'chus", translated loosely, means "benefit of the doubt", but more so. basically, it's a jewish precept to always assume the best of a person, even if circumstances suggest otherwise, one must always seek an explanation that exonerates the other. there's more fine print, but that's the long and short of it.
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Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:06 pm
kingpinsqeezels Ywould not know if they are really that strict about it. I mean I'm nto sayign that there is a majority whom don't like converts or do. I'm just saying, I've had bad moments with the sect, and wonderful moments with it, but when I heard they were locking converts out of the mikveh in florida iw as like .. well it broke my string of tolerance. sweatdrop mrgreen sorry about the title it was liek 11 pm when i made the thread, and I was really hyper. rofl hee hee
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:59 am
ZonkotheSane though it's nice to see some dam l'chaf s'chus. That would be da n l'chaf s'chus wink
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:10 am
I'm assuming that when you say "hassidic" you mean Chabad, or Lubavitch? (One of the largest branches of hassidut). Well, first I'll clarify what exactly they do, then I'll explain why;
Chabad specifically does not involve itself in conversion to Judaism by non-Jews, and generally refers interested parties to other courts of Jewish law. They pass the job of accepting converts to people who they feel are more adept at it than they are. They do however encourage all Jews, including converts, to strengthen their commitment to Judaism. They are willing to help any Jew, because they feel that is their mission on earth.
So it's not that they don't like converts... They don't like involving themselves in the conversion process. It's not that hard to understand really, because converting someone is very serious. The person the beis din converts is now obligated to keep (or at least try their best to keep) all the mitzvahs. If they start to be lax about Judaism, decide they don't want to be religious anymore, or give up Judaism altogether, then all the sins and desecrations of G-d's name that they do now fall on the head of the beis din that converted them. I think Chabad feel it's better to put all their energy into what they know to do best: Strengthen and help other Jews.
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:36 am
nathan_ngl I'm assuming that when you say "hassidic" you mean Chabad, or Lubavitch? yea lol i'm a moron, I know. Not the brightest crayon in the box. I'm more of a deep purple or like chestnut brown. lol. I always knew why my eyes were brown and not blue or green! hee hee.
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:39 am
nathan_ngl ZonkotheSane though it's nice to see some dam l'chaf s'chus. That would be da n l'chaf s'chus wink ani lo m'tabir ivrit
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:20 am
YvetteEmilieDupont nathan_ngl I'm assuming that when you say "hassidic" you mean Chabad, or Lubavitch? yea lol i'm a moron, I know. Not the brightest crayon in the box. I'm more of a deep purple or like chestnut brown. lol. I always knew why my eyes were brown and not blue or green! hee hee. I love brown eyes. Not for me, but I love them.
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:54 pm
kingpinsqeezels YvetteEmilieDupont nathan_ngl I'm assuming that when you say "hassidic" you mean Chabad, or Lubavitch? yea lol i'm a moron, I know. Not the brightest crayon in the box. I'm more of a deep purple or like chestnut brown. lol. I always knew why my eyes were brown and not blue or green! hee hee. I love brown eyes. Not for me, but I love them. You can have mine anyway. blaugh
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:17 pm
darkphoenix1247 kingpinsqeezels YvetteEmilieDupont nathan_ngl I'm assuming that when you say "hassidic" you mean Chabad, or Lubavitch? yea lol i'm a moron, I know. Not the brightest crayon in the box. I'm more of a deep purple or like chestnut brown. lol. I always knew why my eyes were brown and not blue or green! hee hee. I love brown eyes. Not for me, but I love them. You can have mine anyway. blaugh corinthian
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