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Absolutism is a political theory that involves giving absolute and complete power to (usually) one supreme ruler. It is a very efficient system when implemented correctly (As was the case with King Louis XIV), but it is only as good as its ruler. Because of this, it can also wreak disaster (As was the case with King Louis XV) on the society.

As you can probably conject, the universe we live in by Christian beliefs is an absolutist society. Supreme power is given to God. God controls it all.

Now, God is said to be perfect. This means that the system He rules is perfect.

Essentially, I wanted to compare God to a monarch such as King Louis XIV of France.


Another point I'd like to bring up is the morality of various political systems. Do Christians believe that democracy is an ineffective system? Should we have dictators rather than democratically elected representatives? Why is it the Kingdom of Heaven and not the Republic of Heaven? Does God act as Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches all in one?

God's system is equivalent to that of Adolf Hitler's. If you did not see the Third Reich as an effective system, then you were executed. By the same token, if you do not believe in the Christian system, you are burned for eternity.

What do you people think?

It's funny, because that's actually exactly how Nazi Germany worked. If you were blameless in the eyes of the Nazi party, you were fine. If not, you died.


Now here's where Nazi Germany seemed to ahve a slightly more just system. See, they told you exactly what to do and what not to do in a specific set of laws. God gave us an old book which most people disagree on which parts to take seriously.

In the Third Reich, you knew to take it all seriously.

If you take all of God's rules seriously, you're not going to have a very pleasant life, and you'll probably break quite a few without even realising it.


Well, you got a trial first.

I mean, they basically had the judge yell at you for five minutes before sending you off to be executed...

And yes, it was an effective system that lifted Germany out of economic turmoil and turned them into a prominant, leading nation that was a threat to the world. Just like France and King Louis XIV.

It just stopped being so effective when the Fuhrer went insane and thought he had five times the forces he actually had...

How so?


But only if you ask for forgiveness before you actually knew you comitted a crime.


Not really. It sounds like pretty much the same kind of trial as the Nazis'.


Are you kidding? If it weren't for the British and Holy Roman Empires allying in order to resist him, plus a series of plagues that swept through France, we'd probably all be speaking French right now.


He bit off more than he could chew...

Ohhh, this is a good question... let's see...



Under this assumption, God's society would be perfect, and by that I mean heaven is perfect. We can't really apply that to earth since there are other forces at work in the world besides God.




This question kind of made me laugh... I believe democracy is a good system, but I don't believe in a perfect political system. As you said, most systems are only as good as their rulers, and that applies to democracy too. I suppose it would be Kingdom of Heaven for several reasons. The most obvious would be that in the society that the Bible was written in, they didn't have a republic, and they may not have even known what one was. I suppose during the NT they had some Roman background which would have led to some exposure, but by the time Christianity was a full fledged religion we were back to a emporer again.

You can't compare God's society to a form of government you don't know anything about, and they were most farmiliar with kingdoms. I also do suppose God would be the supreme ruler, which would make it more like a kingdom than a republic.



This is an interesting point to make. However, I would say there's a bit less brutality in God's method than Hitler's. Hitler would excecute certain groups such as Jews, gypsys, and the handicapped regardless of if they believed in his system or not. The difference is that God is completely good and Hitler was well... not.

In theory, but by some method that I don't pretend to understand, they're still at work. Also free will plays into it as well, since we choose to sin.



I don't really understand how you got that from my argument. In case you can't tell, I usually have something to say but I don't know how to word it... I think the point was I don't believe in a perfect form of government because humans are flawed, but Heaven was compared to a kingdom because it's essentially all the authors of the Bible knew at the time.



But it's not like he executes them without warning. He's given us the tools and means to follow him like he wants, we just have to choose to follow him. Hitler just started killing people.

First part: Naive question: what is the big black box argument? It's a term I'm not farmiliar with.

Second part: God is inconcievable to humans He is everywhere and everything and humans cannot wrap their minds around the vastness of God. He's often pictured looking like a man, but I think that's ridiculous. Like putting God in a box, if you will. But since we can't completely understand it, we relate it to the best things we know how. In reality no one really knows what Heaven is like, some guy just assumed it would be like a perfect kingdom where God is the ruler. God is equated with a king since he rules over everything, like the ruler of a country.

Random thought: would God really even need to "rule" Heaven? If it's a perfect system then there's no need to have a judicual system... because no one will do anything wrong. Everyone would just know how God calls us to "live" and do that in Heaven I guess. So actually anarchy seems the most probable of all methods of government, that or the absolutism that this thread is based off of.

Something to ponder I guess

Third thing: Okay, see I don't believe in predestination so that kind of declares your argument null and void. I personally find it a ridiculous argument and it just doesn't even make sense to me. It's like God's setting you up for failure, and he defiently does not want you to suck at life.

BUT I do acknowledge someone born in a society highly dominated by another religion may ir may not be screwed. I know people who have converted to and from Christianity, so it happens quite a bit. There's actually a very nice Indian woman at my church who I believe was formerly Hindu. Your comment about Hindu making more sense is an opinion so again, null and void. I've studied Hinduism and I think it's a great religion, but that's not the point. Also multiple paths comes into this subject but... whatev.

I think that's it for now.

A) You didn't answer my question. B) That's not what I said. I said that we can't understand him completely, so we compare him to what we know best.



What people?



Admittedly, I didn't think that whole thing through. It was just me kinda pondering. I meant in Heaven though. What I was trying to say was if Heaven is perfect and everyone knows and follows the "laws" (for lack of a better word) then does it really need a ruler? So in theory doesn'y anarchy make the most sense? It was just a random thought.



On the contrary, I don't. There's a passage from Moby d**k that explains very nicely the way I feel about all that, but I'm too lazy to summarize the whole thing right now. It's basically a combination of fate, free will, and chance. I think God will always know the outcome of our choices, but we have the ability to make our own choices. It's kinda like a giant web; you start from one part and it spilts off between the varying choices you can make. God knows the outcome to all of them, but we make the choice ourselves.



First of all, do not mock my laziness to type the last two letters xd Bad habit I picked up from a friend. Second, I do realize what your saying and that's where multiple paths comes into play, where I'm kinda on the fence with what I believe on that subject. As I said, they may or may not be screwed. They still have the means and the tools to convert, so it's not like they weren't given an opportunity, but I do acknowledge your point. I don't pretend to know all of God's inner workings, so I can't give you a definite answer.

Okay, in case you can't tell, you usually have to be a little more thorough with me xD Especially today, since I didn't have school.

I still don't really understand how I'm applying the black box arguement to it. I don't recall saying that since God is inconcievable he exists. I believe we can't understand him, but that's not why I believe in him.

God didn't write the Bible. It's based off people's expereinces, visions, etc. so in a lot of it God didn't really do the talking. When he did, prehaps he was just describing it in a way he thought we'd understand. You know, like how you talk to children who may not understand something. I mean, he knows us pretty well.

My point is, the authors of the Bible compared God's society in Heaven to a kingdom because that's what they knew. Had they lived in a republic it would probably be the Republic of Heaven.

Theoretically heaven is paradise. It's a perfect society, so that would mean no one would be doing anything wrong. Heaven isn't something I've studied because my church doesn't focus on it. I don't think I've ever heard a sermon preached on it in my church, come to think of it. Anyway, the whole bit about heaven being anarchy was just a random thought I was throwing out there.

Yes, our free will can impose upon others. That's an aspect of fate: something we can't control. I'm curious, you don't believe in God but you talk like you believe in predestination. I'm just wondering about your personal beliefs on the subject.

Good verses, btw. As I said, I think God will know the outcomes of all the choices we make, no matter what choice we make but it's up to us to choose which way we go.

I wouldn't say his nature is fallable. It's just no one said life was fair.

Another random question: are you always online xD You always have a new post everytime I pop back in here... it blows my mind.