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Drinking age, what should be done with it?

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CleverScreenname

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:49 am


This was actually the subject I used in my application here, but I'm really curious as to what you all think.

In America, the legal drinking age is 21. That being said, it's no secret that most children do not respect (and I use that word lightly) this law, and experiment with alcohol earlier. I believe the average age that kids begin to experiment with drinking is 14.

Lately there has been a push to lower the drinking age down to at least 18, and there have been many valid reasons to back this up:
-No one on college campuses would be underage, and thus no one would have to worry about enforcing keg parties.
-It might help to lower the "forbidden fruit" effect
-If you're old enough to smoke (except for in Jersey), vote, have sex, and be legally considered an adult, why shouldn't you be able to drink?
Like I said, these are all valid reasons.

However, there has been another push in the opposite direction. Some people have been pushing to raise the drinking age. The biggest contributing reason is the damage that can be done to the adolescent brain due to alcohol.

No one can deny that excessive alcohol consumption can damage one's liver, but not as many are aware of the irreversable effects it can have on the brain. Teenagers are especially suseptable to these effects due to the fact that adolescence is one of the major development periods for the frontal lobe.

The two major areas affected by excessive drinking are the hippocampus and the prefontal area.
The Hippocampus controls the memory and learning functions. Damage to this area is (like damage to all areas of the brain) irreversable and severe. The effects can range from limited vocabulary to strong difficiencies in memory recall.
The Prefrontal area defines personality in one's adult life, and damaging this can have lasting effects in the way an adolescent interacts with others later in life.

So, just how much alcohol consumption is "excessive"? Well actually, my source didn't specify. However, it seems that binge drinking once a week, or even with any kind of regularity depending on your age and ability to hold your alcohol can have at least some adverse effects on the brain.

In all honesty, I find it hard to actually believe that raising the legal drinking age will do anything to stop this. If anything, it will probably make binge drinking even more common among teens.

The way I would propose to help this problem is alcohol education. Similar to how sex education can be helpful to those who wish to pay attention, alcohol education may actually save a life or two. However, since sex isn't inherently damaging as much as drinking is (well, is considered to be), I doubt that schools could ever be able to teach kids how to drink safely. Instead, I propose that parents talk more openly with their children about alcohol and be open to allowing their children to try alcohol within the home.

Of course no solution is perfect and there would still be kids who get involved in binge drinking, but I think (and maybe naively) that it could work.

So what do you think about the drinking age? Should it be raised, lowered, kept the same, or taken away all together?

Source for brain-damage information: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/9416.html
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:00 pm


Just out of curiosity, what is the age at which one can smoke in New Jersey?

Personally, I don't think it should be lowered, but it shouldn't be raised either. Lowering it will cause teens to binge younger, and it will take a generation or so to acclimate to the change. Raising it will make it worse as well.

Cougar Draven


CleverScreenname

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:38 am


Cougar Draven
Just out of curiosity, what is the age at which one can smoke in New Jersey?

Personally, I don't think it should be lowered, but it shouldn't be raised either. Lowering it will cause teens to binge younger, and it will take a generation or so to acclimate to the change. Raising it will make it worse as well.
19, they just raised it.

It's a touchy question. There's much less binge drinking in countries in Europe where there is a lower drinking age or none at all (with the exception of France). However, alcoholism is much higher in those countries as well. So there are pro's and con's to the whole "Europe has the right idea" argument that I've heard about so much.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:37 am


CleverScreenname
Cougar Draven
Just out of curiosity, what is the age at which one can smoke in New Jersey?

Personally, I don't think it should be lowered, but it shouldn't be raised either. Lowering it will cause teens to binge younger, and it will take a generation or so to acclimate to the change. Raising it will make it worse as well.
19, they just raised it.

It's a touchy question. There's much less binge drinking in countries in Europe where there is a lower drinking age or none at all (with the exception of France). However, alcoholism is much higher in those countries as well. So there are pro's and con's to the whole "Europe has the right idea" argument that I've heard about so much.


Ah, so I can still smoke. I'm trying to quit.

See, the whole thing just doesn't hold a lot of water to me. I live in an area that gets hit with a double-whammy: it's near a large city (more liquor stores, less ability to I.D.), and it's near Canada. Before 9/11, the law of the land was hit the Canadian bars at 2 p.m., and the most sober one drives back.

They're making it required to have a passport now, though. Good idea, if you ask me. It means that I can drive to Canada next time, so my roommate doesn't run the stop sign at Customs. That was a ********' nightmare.

Cougar Draven


Arianna La Moire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:50 pm


*sigh* I believe the Europeans have it right. If you are slowly introduced to alcohol, like with a glass of wine at meals, then when you get older, you are far less likely to do binge drinking, and you know your limits by then so you don't get wasted.

In Amercia, especially the South I hate to admit, it is a custom that when you turn 21 you take 21 shots to welcome you into adult-hood, I know of cases where the person has had to go to the hositpal right away, Happy Birthday indeed.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:21 pm


dark.hazel
*sigh* I believe the Europeans have it right. If you are slowly introduced to alcohol, like with a glass of wine at meals, then when you get older, you are far less likely to do binge drinking, and you know your limits by then so you don't get wasted.

In Amercia, especially the South I hate to admit, it is a custom that when you turn 21 you take 21 shots to welcome you into adult-hood, I know of cases where the person has had to go to the hositpal right away, Happy Birthday indeed.


I think the worst part is when you know you can deal with the 21 shots without needing a hospital trip.

Here's what I mean. I know, for a fact, that I can stomach at least 21 shots before having any problems. I won't even get more than .09 in my bloodstream. And I will turn 20 next month. My own problem with alcoholism is part of the reason why I don't much like alcohol.

Cougar Draven


CleverScreenname

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:31 pm


dark.hazel
*sigh* I believe the Europeans have it right. If you are slowly introduced to alcohol, like with a glass of wine at meals, then when you get older, you are far less likely to do binge drinking, and you know your limits by then so you don't get wasted.

In Amercia, especially the South I hate to admit, it is a custom that when you turn 21 you take 21 shots to welcome you into adult-hood, I know of cases where the person has had to go to the hositpal right away, Happy Birthday indeed.
Do the Europeans really have it right? In my post I actually stated while it's true that there are less incidents of binge drinking (except in France), there is a much higher proportion of alcoholism, which in my mind, isn't much better than binge drinking. So its hard to say what the right answer is.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:57 pm


Cougar Draven
dark.hazel
*sigh* I believe the Europeans have it right. If you are slowly introduced to alcohol, like with a glass of wine at meals, then when you get older, you are far less likely to do binge drinking, and you know your limits by then so you don't get wasted.

In Amercia, especially the South I hate to admit, it is a custom that when you turn 21 you take 21 shots to welcome you into adult-hood, I know of cases where the person has had to go to the hositpal right away, Happy Birthday indeed.


I think the worst part is when you know you can deal with the 21 shots without needing a hospital trip.

Here's what I mean. I know, for a fact, that I can stomach at least 21 shots before having any problems. I won't even get more than .09 in my bloodstream. And I will turn 20 next month. My own problem with alcoholism is part of the reason why I don't much like alcohol.


I was introduced to alcohol fairly early on, round 7 or 8 years old, and I've been fine since starting. I mean, other than the occasional "just for the hell of it" sort of thing (through which it has been determined I'm a better drinker at 145 lbs. than my friend Clayton is at 190 - hooray for heavyweights!), I don't drink mopre than a few. Six or seven of any given thing tends to be fine, and eight or nine doesn't do much more than leave me a tad bit off. Go higher than that, though... well, then we enter "the hell of it" boundaries.

Emperor Fluffzorz


Cougar Draven

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:48 am


Emperor Fluffzorz
Cougar Draven
dark.hazel
*sigh* I believe the Europeans have it right. If you are slowly introduced to alcohol, like with a glass of wine at meals, then when you get older, you are far less likely to do binge drinking, and you know your limits by then so you don't get wasted.

In Amercia, especially the South I hate to admit, it is a custom that when you turn 21 you take 21 shots to welcome you into adult-hood, I know of cases where the person has had to go to the hositpal right away, Happy Birthday indeed.


I think the worst part is when you know you can deal with the 21 shots without needing a hospital trip.

Here's what I mean. I know, for a fact, that I can stomach at least 21 shots before having any problems. I won't even get more than .09 in my bloodstream. And I will turn 20 next month. My own problem with alcoholism is part of the reason why I don't much like alcohol.


I was introduced to alcohol fairly early on, round 7 or 8 years old, and I've been fine since starting. I mean, other than the occasional "just for the hell of it" sort of thing (through which it has been determined I'm a better drinker at 145 lbs. than my friend Clayton is at 190 - hooray for heavyweights!), I don't drink mopre than a few. Six or seven of any given thing tends to be fine, and eight or nine doesn't do much more than leave me a tad bit off. Go higher than that, though... well, then we enter "the hell of it" boundaries.


It's not that I was introduced to alcohol at a young age, it's my predominantly Irish heritage, combined with the fact that I have some sort of heightened tolerance for all things. Alcohol, nicotine, marijuana; it really doesn't matter what it is, I'm pretty much immune.

EDIT: I need to remember to finish my thoughts. And to stop clicking "quote" when I mean "edit".

Yeah, I suppose that my tolerance has its limits, but I remember a time when I was living in Illinois. My roommate and I had our girlfriends over, and a few others, and we were all in the basement drinking beer, vodka, tequila, and Everclear. Well, okay, I split the bottle with my girlfriend. 90-10, with me drinking the 90. I also had about five beers. She had one beer. She was damn near trashed, I was damn near fine. I wasn't safe to drive, but I likely could have walked to the store without it being obvious that I was intoxicated. Afterwards, typical teenage debauchery ensued, and everyone woke up with a hangover. Except me.

I think that when I finally do die, I'll leave my body to science. Just my luck, I'm the cure for cancer, or just a new variety thereof.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:05 am


Cougar Draven
Emperor Fluffzorz
Cougar Draven
dark.hazel
*sigh* I believe the Europeans have it right. If you are slowly introduced to alcohol, like with a glass of wine at meals, then when you get older, you are far less likely to do binge drinking, and you know your limits by then so you don't get wasted.

In Amercia, especially the South I hate to admit, it is a custom that when you turn 21 you take 21 shots to welcome you into adult-hood, I know of cases where the person has had to go to the hositpal right away, Happy Birthday indeed.


I think the worst part is when you know you can deal with the 21 shots without needing a hospital trip.

Here's what I mean. I know, for a fact, that I can stomach at least 21 shots before having any problems. I won't even get more than .09 in my bloodstream. And I will turn 20 next month. My own problem with alcoholism is part of the reason why I don't much like alcohol.


I was introduced to alcohol fairly early on, round 7 or 8 years old, and I've been fine since starting. I mean, other than the occasional "just for the hell of it" sort of thing (through which it has been determined I'm a better drinker at 145 lbs. than my friend Clayton is at 190 - hooray for heavyweights!), I don't drink more than a few. Six or seven of any given thing tends to be fine, and eight or nine doesn't do much more than leave me a tad bit off. Go higher than that, though... well, then we enter "the hell of it" boundaries.


It's not that I was introduced to alcohol at a young age, it's my predominantly Irish heritage, combined with the fact that I have some sort of heightened tolerance for all things. Alcohol, nicotine, marijuana; it really doesn't matter what it is, I'm pretty much immune.

EDIT: I need to remember to finish my thoughts. And to stop clicking "quote" when I mean "edit".

Yeah, I suppose that my tolerance has its limits, but I remember a time when I was living in Illinois. My roommate and I had our girlfriends over, and a few others, and we were all in the basement drinking beer, vodka, tequila, and Everclear. Well, okay, I split the bottle with my girlfriend. 90-10, with me drinking the 90. I also had about five beers. She had one beer. She was damn near trashed, I was damn near fine. I wasn't safe to drive, but I likely could have walked to the store without it being obvious that I was intoxicated. Afterwards, typical teenage debauchery ensued, and everyone woke up with a hangover. Except me.

I think that when I finally do die, I'll leave my body to science. Just my luck, I'm the cure for cancer, or just a new variety thereof.


Mmmm... not quite that good myself, but damn near. I do so love to be able to wake up in the morning without instantly regretting it. Problem is, that leaves me to play hangover-nurse for everybody else involved. Throw a 93-lb. girlfriend who's been taking diluted prozac for nearly a decade as "depression control" into the mix (which effectively makes her the ultimate lightweight) and yeah, I'm pretty much the "sits there and gets bitched at by everyone about their hangovers" guy. Hoorah. Though, it does provide me with amusement when I can drink almost everyone I know under the table and still be clear-headed enough to get the full amusement of it.

Emperor Fluffzorz


Oni no Tenshi

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:57 pm


I do not drink, and I'm 22. I don't drink for a myriad of reasons, the main one being that "I just don't WANT to, so ******** off."

That said, I think that the legal drinking age should be lowered to 18, but that for years beforehand, parents should legally be able to teach their children to drink responsibly, maybe even instituting a "drinker permit" for learning alcohol-consumers.

By this, I mean that in almost EVERY OTHER VERY IMPORTANT THING IN OUR LIVES (excluding sex, but I think it should be included too) requires extensive education in our society. In order to drive a car, you're expected to take a training course and pass both a written and a "in action" test.

You can kill just as many people by not knowing how to drive and driving around as you can if you drive drunk, so why not teach kids responsible drinking?

There are no things in this world that we can learn how to do innately besides breathing, eating (and I'm not sure about that one considering some of the crap we eat), and taking a s**t.

When it comes to dancing, you aren't just born with smooth moves. When it comes to driving, you don't magically get your license when you turn 16 because it's an arbitrary age where you're supposed to have illegally been going around driving cars illegally and almost killing people or yourself in the process, and possibly even hurting someone for years beforehand.

That's the way it is with "arbitrary" numbers that allow you to do something, especially when society teaches us that the way you learn how to drink "properly" is through getting s**t faced at parties and having horrible experiences that you can look back on and go "wow, I'm surprised I survived that s**t; I was a total dumbass!".

So, in summary, drinking shouldn't be something you magically get shoved into because you "magically" become an adult.

It should be an act that you get taught about, much like you should be taught about proper food and nutrition, and about driving your car.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:04 am


Oni-Angel
I do not drink, and I'm 22. I don't drink for a myriad of reasons, the main one being that "I just don't WANT to, so ******** off."

That said, I think that the legal drinking age should be lowered to 18, but that for years beforehand, parents should legally be able to teach their children to drink responsibly, maybe even instituting a "drinker permit" for learning alcohol-consumers.

By this, I mean that in almost EVERY OTHER VERY IMPORTANT THING IN OUR LIVES (excluding sex, but I think it should be included too) requires extensive education in our society. In order to drive a car, you're expected to take a training course and pass both a written and a "in action" test.

You can kill just as many people by not knowing how to drive and driving around as you can if you drive drunk, so why not teach kids responsible drinking?

There are no things in this world that we can learn how to do innately besides breathing, eating (and I'm not sure about that one considering some of the crap we eat), and taking a s**t.

When it comes to dancing, you aren't just born with smooth moves. When it comes to driving, you don't magically get your license when you turn 16 because it's an arbitrary age where you're supposed to have illegally been going around driving cars illegally and almost killing people or yourself in the process, and possibly even hurting someone for years beforehand.

That's the way it is with "arbitrary" numbers that allow you to do something, especially when society teaches us that the way you learn how to drink "properly" is through getting s**t faced at parties and having horrible experiences that you can look back on and go "wow, I'm surprised I survived that s**t; I was a total dumbass!".

So, in summary, drinking shouldn't be something you magically get shoved into because you "magically" become an adult.

It should be an act that you get taught about, much like you should be taught about proper food and nutrition, and about driving your car.


This is true. However, if we're going to implement this, it's going to have the same problem that sex ed does. No American government, Democrat- or Republican-controlled, will ever be liberal enough to allow a plausible sex ed class, and as such, it will always be abstinence-oriented. As such, no class teaching the proper consumption of alcohol will ever be possible, since there is no American government that would allow it to be taught any other way than "Don't drink." And while that is rather disappointing, I feel it to be true.

I cannot speak for our readers outside the United States, but I'm relatively sure that the United Kingdom would end up the same way, because Tony Blair is George W. Bush's b***h.

Canada, though...I don't know about Canada. They're just enough off the radar to have a chance at being close to my ideal government. (Canadian citizens, this is your clue to move.)

Also, Oni, you don't need any goddamn reason to drink. By the same logic, you don't need a reason to not drink, either.

I'm gonna go listen to Behind Blue Eyes again.

Cougar Draven


CleverScreenname

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:29 pm


I'm not sure that it would be impossible that some day, people could become libral enough to teach sex ed classes. And then maybe alcohol ed classes, too. But maybe I'm naive.

The difference between sex ed and alcohol ed is that sex ed is sort of a "one size fits all" kind of education. There's only one right way to put on a condom, but there are many different right and wrong ways to drink depending on the individual. That's why I believe alcohol education should be done in the home. That, and I think that sex education will be much quicker to hit public schools (it's already implimented in many secular private schools) because sex isn't inherently destructive like alcohol is. Okay, well alcohol isn't inherently destructive, but I think that it is much more dangerous than sex in the way that it is more complicated to practice alcohol consumption safely. You have to know your personal limits and be able to understand when you've hit them once you're already intoxicated. Like I said before, there's only one right way to put on a condom. It just depends on your prescence of mind to use one at the heat of the moment. And there are certainly plenty of reasons that will scare you into remembering to put it on, whether you're taught abstinace in school or not.
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