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| Take the package deal? |
| Of course. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Hell no. |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
| As long as it comes with free batteries for life. |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
| I want a Wii. |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
| I have a Wii, and I won't let you play it because I'm mean. |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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 Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:30 am
So I recently (several minutes ago) had a realization about people. Does everyone really expect everyone's religion/morals/spirituality to be the same from person-to-person. Now I'm not picking on LoBo, because he's captain and we all love him, but he really pushed this point home for me. LoBo_23 ...There seems to be a lot... A LOT of conflict between religious beleifs of... probably three out of four people will have atleast a slight dissagreement with the person standing next to them, based on moralistic, or spiritualistic beleifs... (personal opinion, non-proven fact)... I mean...isn't religion and morality a combination of experience and personal beliefs? This is exactly why I hate organized religion. These things shouldn't be cookie-cutter, total package deals. We're not selling exercise equipment or facial hair removal cream. Those church sermons they televise should not be infomercials. "So for just one low price of belief in Jesus and a trip to church once a week, we'll also send you a first-class ticket to heaven, and free talks with God every Sunday! And if you call in the next ten minutes, we'll include shipping and handling!" What the ********? This isn't directed at just Christianity, I just haven't seen many televised Temple sermons or Islamic prayer sessions. I have nothing against any religion. I respect everyone's right to their own religion. But if you go to church because you're afraid of dying, you're a ******** idiot. If you try to convince people that they should be afraid of dying, and thus go to church, you're a ******** idiot. Religion should be about personal beliefs. Chuch is a good thing to do if you're Christian. But if you don't agree with your preacher, don't feel like you have to. Don't feel like you're a "sinner" because you don't believe that all homosexuals are going to hell, or that abortion is wrong. And if you really have a preacher or priest or pastor who you respect and who respects other people, talk to him or her about it. Don't take the package deal. So, again, why exactly does everyone expect the same thing from everyone? Why do we all want everyone to believe in the same exact thing? The world would be easier to deal with, but it'd also be ******** retarded. It'd be like that episode of South Park when Cartman froze himself so he could be unfrozen in 3 weeks when the Wii came out, but Butters couldn't find him, so he wasn't unfrozen until 540 years later, and there was no religion. So the three groups, the United Athiest Alliance, the Unified Athiest League, and the Allied Athiest Allegiance (who just happened to be sea otters), all killed each other over what they think the athiests should all be called. Yes, I love South Park. Note that I'm generalizing here, and you don't necesarily have to agree with my opinion. Actually, I'm counting on you to disagree with me. So go for it.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:22 pm
Funny thing, that. I was a syncretist before syncretism was cool. Now, I *practice* Catholicism, because I like it. But I take extra helpings of the Mysteries, and the secret handshakes and whatnot, because it's much more fun than Buddy Christ (I'm not a big fan of most of Vatican II). And then I take my Scandinavian heritage and add in a big giant scoop of "all the gods are more or less versions of the same thing, so pick the ones you like". I think I'd probably give the Pope a heart attack. Fortunately, my pastor is a big fan of Joseph Campbell and mysticism, so aside from his tendency to air his political beliefs in his sermons (I kindly turn deaf for those bits), we've got an understanding.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:55 pm
I actually agree with you DrasBrisingr. I too am not a fan of organized religion. My experiences in Christianity showed me how stupid people could be. In my particular group, people would love to hear about the messages of love from the pastor, yet they couldn't really even talk about the Bible. If you asked them any questions were remotely thought provoking, they simply answered with the programmed answer. If you asked them a question that wasn't programmed, they kind of just didn't answer.
I believe that religion is a personal thing. What you do, who you worship, etc. is your business and no one elses. As long as you don't hurt me or my loved ones, I don't care what you worship. That's all up to you.
I'm not just ragging on Christianity (but many sects have the tendency to believe in a large hierarcy type of system which deemphasizes personal spirituality) but on a lot of different religions.
Wicca tends to do this too. That's right, the popular form of paganism which is supposed to stress itself as a personal path can get pretty....controlling. I've see the Wiccan churches/temples and they seem to be the same thing, just in a different flavor.
People think that just by going to a weekly service, they are entitled to benefits. They don't have to think, explore, or question. They just go and sit down and nod their heads obediently.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:02 pm
Yvaine: Although I've never had the opinion that other people thought syncretism was "cool" (although that may be just small-bible-belt-town syndrome), I suppose I could be considered a syncretist. And I haven't had as bad experiences with Catholics as I've had with Baptists. ******** morons (not all of them, but the one's I've met and known personally). One of my best friends is Catholic, and we have a nice little understanding. He dosen't try to shove his s**t on me, if I don't try to disprove or force him to explain his beliefs. Fortunately for me (and him, I suppose), he's starting to question his own spoon-fed beliefs. But not in an unhealthy way.
Anyway, I'm glad you have that kind of understanding. When I used to go to church and Sunday school, I just didn't ask questions aloud because any question was blasphemy, and I was ridiculed for it.
iolitefire: Yeah, I've heard those "programmed responses", too. But more with politics and people at my school. I refuse to even talk with those children about religion. Children is what they are, and children is all they'll ever be.
But I've never attempted to take part in a Wiccan church like that. That's interesting. I knew a lot of the mainstream Wiccan s**t was fluff, but I didn't know it was like that. Interesting.
And now, a quote, courtesty of A Perfect Circle's "Pet".
Lay your head down, child,
I won't let the boogeyman come.
Count the bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums.
Pay no mind to the rabble,
Pay no mind to the rabble.
Head down, go to sleep to the rhythm of the war drums.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:38 pm
I suppose organized religion is advantageous to those who believe in one single path to salvation, and ruin down all other roads. But I feel differently in that I want to be totally sure and uncompromising in my beliefs that I would rather go to hell for trying to do what I thought was right than go to heaven for being scared into faith. I won't bow to the arguement from authority, even when that authority is the highest.
So, in essence, I find some organizations to appeal to me. But most do not.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:55 pm
Joshua_Ritter I suppose organized religion is advantageous to those who believe in one single path to salvation, and ruin down all other roads. But I feel differently in that I want to be totally sure and uncompromising in my beliefs that I would rather go to hell for trying to do what I thought was right than go to heaven for being scared into faith. I won't bow to the arguement from authority, even when that authority is the highest.
So, in essence, I find some organizations to appeal to me. But most do not. Religion is more than salvation. At least, I think so. Religion dictates your morals, your actions, and your thoughts. If someone tells you what to believe to be right and wrong, what to do, and what to think, how is that advantageous at all?
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:39 pm
DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter I suppose organized religion is advantageous to those who believe in one single path to salvation, and ruin down all other roads. But I feel differently in that I want to be totally sure and uncompromising in my beliefs that I would rather go to hell for trying to do what I thought was right than go to heaven for being scared into faith. I won't bow to the arguement from authority, even when that authority is the highest.
So, in essence, I find some organizations to appeal to me. But most do not. Religion is more than salvation. At least, I think so. Religion dictates your morals, your actions, and your thoughts. If someone tells you what to believe to be right and wrong, what to do, and what to think, how is that advantageous at all?
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:55 pm
Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter I suppose organized religion is advantageous to those who believe in one single path to salvation, and ruin down all other roads. But I feel differently in that I want to be totally sure and uncompromising in my beliefs that I would rather go to hell for trying to do what I thought was right than go to heaven for being scared into faith. I won't bow to the arguement from authority, even when that authority is the highest.
So, in essence, I find some organizations to appeal to me. But most do not. Religion is more than salvation. At least, I think so. Religion dictates your morals, your actions, and your thoughts. If someone tells you what to believe to be right and wrong, what to do, and what to think, how is that advantageous at all? ...Who says the only two options that exist are Jesus or Hell? And is that the most important thing, in the long run? Is what happens to you after death more important than what you do in life? I think not.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:44 pm
DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter I suppose organized religion is advantageous to those who believe in one single path to salvation, and ruin down all other roads. But I feel differently in that I want to be totally sure and uncompromising in my beliefs that I would rather go to hell for trying to do what I thought was right than go to heaven for being scared into faith. I won't bow to the arguement from authority, even when that authority is the highest.
So, in essence, I find some organizations to appeal to me. But most do not. Religion is more than salvation. At least, I think so. Religion dictates your morals, your actions, and your thoughts. If someone tells you what to believe to be right and wrong, what to do, and what to think, how is that advantageous at all? ...Who says the only two options that exist are Jesus or Hell? And is that the most important thing, in the long run? Is what happens to you after death more important than what you do in life? I think not.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:59 pm
Some do hold the opinion that what comes after is if far greater importance than the here and now.
Famous important person example: Thomas Moore. Gave up his life because he was unwilling to go against his own word and beliefs, which would condemn him to hell.
It is a personal thing really. I say find the one you agree with most, and go with it, or make your own splinter sect. That's always a fun thing to do~!
Responding to the original post now:
I expect little to nothing from most people, unless I have done something for them. In general I don't care who you are, or what you believe. It is your choice, and I don't need to try and convert the world to my ideas. Let people change based on their preference, and nothing else. Believe what you will, but don't force it ojn other people. If you believe it should be forced, you may try. All measures you use will inevitably be used against you later on.
Famous important example of someone who would not change for other people nor forced their own beliefs on others: Hypatia of Alexandria. Pagan when Christianity was taking hold of the wester world. Famous philosopher and teacher in Alexandria. Dismembered by a mob of zealots, remembered later by Christians as being very virtuous, even a symbol of virture.
So yeah. It is personal, I just feel that one should find what they agree with most, and either roll with it, or change it accordingly. Bastardization of beliefs happens anyway, might as well do it yourself... the original ideas are all dead anyhow.
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:36 pm
DrasBrisingr Yvaine: Although I've never had the opinion that other people thought syncretism was "cool" (although that may be just small-bible-belt-town syndrome), I suppose I could be considered a syncretist. And I haven't had as bad experiences with Catholics as I've had with Baptists. ******** morons (not all of them, but the one's I've met and known personally). One of my best friends is Catholic, and we have a nice little understanding. He dosen't try to shove his s**t on me, if I don't try to disprove or force him to explain his beliefs. Fortunately for me (and him, I suppose), he's starting to question his own spoon-fed beliefs. But not in an unhealthy way. Anyway, I'm glad you have that kind of understanding. When I used to go to church and Sunday school, I just didn't ask questions aloud because any question was blasphemy, and I was ridiculed for it. iolitefire: Yeah, I've heard those "programmed responses", too. But more with politics and people at my school. I refuse to even talk with those children about religion. Children is what they are, and children is all they'll ever be. But I've never attempted to take part in a Wiccan church like that. That's interesting. I knew a lot of the mainstream Wiccan s**t was fluff, but I didn't know it was like that. Interesting. Wiccan s**t is not necessarily fluff, just like not all Christians are nasty proselytizers. Also, just because people are attending organized meetings and rituals does not mean that they are giving up their practice of free thought. Yvaine and I are examples of that. We attend Roman Catholic church on a regular basis, but we have spiritual and philosophical lives outside of that. Not everyone wants to have their own philosophy. Not everyone wants to know what monsters the angels and gods protect them against. Not everyone wants to know magic. It is up to those of us who travel the path of mysticism to bring enlightenment and understanding where we can, and to promote humanity above all things. Connection is the source of magic, and we must foster it.
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:04 am
Erm... just because you have an 'organized religion' doesn't mean that as a part of that organization you suddenly give up or lack all ability to have a personal spirituality within the organizational framework.
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:10 pm
Starlock Erm... just because you have an 'organized religion' doesn't mean that as a part of that organization you suddenly give up or lack all ability to have a personal spirituality within the organizational framework. But, at least from my experience, organized religion pushes toward that. Ideally, churches would just be a place to learn and be around people of your own religion, but unfortunately (or forunately) we don't live in a utopia. But still, you're missing my point. Organized religion would be good if there wasn't so many people who think, "if I go to church, I'll go to heaven and be ok." In the Christian faith, going to church does not mean you get into heaven. Belief in Christ, among many other things, will save your soul. Sitting deafly in church, and taking communion dosen't mean you believe in anything. It just means you're a ******** idiot if you're just there to save your own a**. I don't hate organized religion for the actual organized religion, I hate it for the people who take advantage of it.
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:16 pm
Laren Wiccan s**t is not necessarily fluff, just like not all Christians are nasty proselytizers. Also, just because people are attending organized meetings and rituals does not mean that they are giving up their practice of free thought. Yvaine and I are examples of that. We attend Roman Catholic church on a regular basis, but we have spiritual and philosophical lives outside of that. Not everyone wants to have their own philosophy. Not everyone wants to know what monsters the angels and gods protect them against. Not everyone wants to know magic. It is up to those of us who travel the path of mysticism to bring enlightenment and understanding where we can, and to promote humanity above all things. Connection is the source of magic, and we must foster it. I didn't say all those who practice Wicca are full of s**t, I said most of the mainstream Wiccan s**t is fluff. Mainstream meaning...well, the surface s**t. The "omg im gunna put a curse on joo, biatch!" s**t [sometimes I hate myself]. And...see above post for stuff about organized religion.
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:23 pm
XD This is why I'm a Deist...
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