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Loving Kindness: A Buddhism Guild

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Non-Existance of the Self and Individual Rights

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Belthasar727

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:54 pm


This might sound crazy, but I have seen it argued a couple times that because there is no independent or individual "ego-self", there is no such thing as natural or individual rights.

I don't know if they were arguing relative truth vs absolute truth, but I'm not comfortable with the notion either way.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:57 am


Emptiness is strange because it asserts that things do exist, but it's a question of how. So while there is no self, the self does exist. What I mean to say is: While there may be no single thing that you can find that is "self", there most certainly is a self in the form of a holographic effect that arises out of a convergence of aggregates. The self most certainly exists, but you'll never find a single thing that is "self".

In that sense, civil rights do exist, but you'll never find a single document or idea that is the essence of civil-rights-ness. Sunyata is neither absolute nor nihilistic, remember. There most certainly is a spoon, but it's a question of why and how it is a spoon, not whether or not it's really there.

Tenzin Chodron
Crew


Belthasar727

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:14 am


Nice post, I agree. The self is a manifestation of non-self elements, but that doesn't mean the self does not exist or should not be respected.

I think in this teaching Buddhism can too easily be misinterpreted as anti-individualism, I have seen other Buddhists, on rare occasion, reject the concept individual rights, while I know where they may be coming from, the assertion is rightly used to argue in opposition to oppression.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:56 pm


There is also something to be said from the point of view of suffering. Oppressing or denying an individual the ability to act in accordance to their own nature is more likely to cause them suffering in the long run.

An analogy coming to mind is a domestic duck kept in a wire cage much too small for its size. Born with the instinct to move, it rubs against the wiring of the cage, injuring it's own body because its need to wander freely is even more unbearable than physical pain.
Humans can be put through variations of this in even more subtle ways, physically and psychologically. It's not only true of the species generally, but of individuals who need to act in their own way.

Maryhl

Shy Werewolf


Belthasar727

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:07 pm


Nice post Demon Kagerou, good to see you here ~

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:11 am


Melchior727
I think in this teaching Buddhism can too easily be misinterpreted as anti-individualism, I have seen other Buddhists, on rare occasion, reject the concept individual rights, while I know where they may be coming from, the assertion is rightly used to argue in opposition to oppression.

It's strange that someone would derive anti-individualism from Buddhism, when the Buddha stressed the Middle Path, but I can see how they would see that. It makes sense if you happen to forget that Buddhism teaches non-attachment to the self, but also compassion - it is easy to forget as I do it quite often. It's not easy to reconcile the two simultaneously, so I can't fault others for it.

Individual rights are important, because they have to be properly balanced with civil rights as a whole. That is very difficult to do. Canada is sometimes praised for balancing the rights of the individual with the rights of the population at large, but it's not at all an easy task.

But when your intention is clear - that you want to minimize suffering, and maximize happiness - then it becomes a little less muddled, providing that you remember you're dealing with real human beings, and not your ideas about what human beings are like.

By the way, I type too much.

Tenzin Chodron
Crew

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Loving Kindness: A Buddhism Guild

 
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