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Don't you think it's a shame that most Epic characters in the Realms are Wizards (or some other Arcane spellcasters) whereas there are only a few Epic represantatives of other classes (if at all present)? Where are all Epic Fighters and Bards? Why are Mystra's chosen so popular, not Gond's/Oghma's etc. (only Fzoul can kinda compete with them in popularity) for example?

I understand that magic users are more powerful when they reach Epic levels and it is hard for other classes to match them, but still I'd love to have an Epic rogue or an assassin lurking somewhere in the Realms.

So what do you think? Do we need more varieties of Epic characters? Are you happy with the current situation? Or do you think there are enough Epics in the game?

that's acually a really good point

Epic NPC Fighters I can see, as the aditional feats also add to their flaver of fighting style
but Epic NPC (pure) Rogues would be kinda redundent sence sneak attack doesn't add much more to the concept of the charicter at high levels then it would at low levels, that's probually why the more develpted NPC 'Rogues' also have Fighter levels...

still, it would be cool to see more high level martial NPCs
yes, so they wouldn't be able to distroy a whole town by themself, but that no reason they counlt be any less intresting...

as for the Chosen, that's another good point, I can't think of a single non-Mystra Chosen of the top of my head other then Cadderly confused

What about Druids, Clerics, Bards, Warlocks, Beguilers etc, etc...they are also magic users. If I could choose who I'd like to be in our real world, I'd say druid's the most powerful class, but that's just me


C'mon rogue is the most versatile class, you should know that wink

P.S Malik el Sami yn Nasser - Chosen of Cyric

out of the Spell casters, Wizards and Sorcerors probually stand out because, well... that's what they do sweatdrop
a Wizard of Epic proportions is more likely to let his power be known then (Cleric example) humbly divote one's self to a single cause or (Druid example) wander into the wilderness to be one with nature...
Magic, for what it's worth, brings power, and most that practice it long enough to become Epic opt to take full advantage of that...
exept for Bards, and epic level Bard is just something sad sweatdrop
(no offence Storm, or any other Harpers about)

though it's like saying "I've finally mastered arcane magic! You kknow, I think I'm going to try learning how shot a bow and Arrow while riding a horse now..."

and where Rogues may be the most adaptive, that's mostly skill wise
they still can't use magic and nore can they fight as well as other people of equivelent level
and if you just wanted epic skill checks, Experts can do that to and are acually probually more in demand <.<
at most would could brag that you could kill a being with one poke of a dagger, as long as you sneak up on them or distract them
but they have assassins for that sort of thing confused
even among the Rogueist of the Rogue NPCs I've found in the Campain setting, none of then just stuck with being a Rogue, at most one had 6 levels in it out of 12...
Look at Artemis Entreri, he's probually the closet we have to an Epic 'Rogue', he only acually has one level in it, the rest are Fighter levels with some Assassain and Ranger levels...

Chosen wise, I remember Fzoul now, but I still never heard of Malik
though it sounds faimiller...
ah, no stats, but he's mentioned in Cyric's bio in Faiths and Pantheons

you do realise that most of the notable high level NPCs are Harpers, right?
like the Seven Sisters and Elminster
infact, I think Elminster helped start them <.<


you might not want to get so excited over that though
first off, converting one to a cause by treat of harm wouldn't really make one a true convert
besides, eather your DM is not using the NPC to it's protentual, or you have to consiter this
the Harpers are one of the best spy networks in Faerun, one does not just simply 'become a Harper', and consitering that your cause is almost the polar oposate of the Harpers, well, I would be making alot of 'Sence Motive' checks around you're 'convert' if I were you...

also, just remember, even on epic proprotions, 'Bluff' is not a free nonmagical 'Charm' spell
you could have the most outlandish Bluff score, but if the target already doesn't see any reason to beleve you, they probually wouldn't, at most they would just beleve you for that one thing you said, then there's al the penatlys to trying to bluff a target that obveously doesn't trust you... sweatdrop

[quote="Nhyndel
Finder Wyvernspur became a Deity you know
I never said it's not done or can be powerfull, it's still kinda sad though
heck, there are at least four other major deities with Bard levels >.>

True, Rogues cannot use magic, but what about Use Magic Device? Not only does it allow to cast any spell be it divine or arcane, it allows to safely use shadow weave items (DC 30) and all race/class oriented items. There is always an option to multiclass as an assassin or a ranger which are also considered magic users...oh, and Rogue 5/Assassin 11 can embrace lichdom...cool, huh?
it goes backto what I said, a pure Rogue is fairly redundent chracter wise

In a 1 on 1 melee fight Rogue beats a fighter/paladin/barbarian, I'm pretty sure, espesially with access to a number of nice prestige classes.
in a one on one fight? I find that hard to beleve

Experts are ok, but an Epic Expert...you can't be serious)))
what? you expect people to buy esquisate crafts from Rogues and Bards?
not everyone in the world is an adventurer, but that doesn't mean they can't still be Epic in there own way
I'm sure the Dwarves have plenty of Epic Experts with max ranks in Profession: Stonework and such

Rogue's role is much more complex than just Sneak Attacking the enemies...like disabling traps and opening locks, picking pockets and other fun stuff...
and at epic levels, those skills lose their usefulness and/or practicallity

I wouldn't say that Artemis is the Rogueist NPC in the Realms, though I don't know who is...maybe a Night Masks member or a Telflammar Shadowlord...
I'll have to look into them later, but I'm sure they all branch out into other classes as well to enhance their abilities

You do realise that there are evil rangers in the Realms...

in the books they tend to be highly emphisised as 'defenders of the goodly races with minor skill with nature' as compaired to 'outdoorsy tracker people' sweatdrop
I'm not to fond of the exagerated discription much (ussually playing a ranger myself), don't we have Paladins for the whole 'Defenders of Justace' but? confused

hmm, Epic Paladin...
that's acually a scary thought <.<;