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Micro chiping?

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RinoaRose

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:32 pm


There are so many children in this world that have been murdered my kidnappers because to put it simply the cops cant find the kids in time. So I was thinking you know how you can take your dog to the vet and have them micro chip(for those of you who dont know what that is it is when they put a small micro chip under the dogs skin so if they ever get lost you can find them using the chip) why the hell cant we do this with kids?

discuss
1) do you think this is a good idea?why/why not explain?
2) why dont you think this has been done before?explain?
3) if this procedure was offered would you consider it for your kid?explian?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:42 pm


I can definitely see the benefits. But my question is, do I trust the government enough not to abuse something like this?

Imagine being arrested because you made the mistake of picking a restaurant that is known for political dissenters.

Akhakhu


wotfan

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:49 am


I agree with nikolita, but I also see the benefits. I am terrified of somthing like that happening to my son and I think that I would probably get a chip. I think there are ways that thye could make it private, have passwords that only the family can use to locate the child, and of course laws in place preventing government abuse.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:41 am


@Kukushka: I see what you are saying about the gov possibly being able to use it as a tool to invade our lives, but in my oppinion I think this is one of those things were the pros out weigh the cons in my oppinion that is.

@wotfan: I also see what your saying and I think that password and such would also be a great idea to ensure like you saod that only family can track down the child. However what happens if its one of the childs parents that kidnappes them? Wouldnt they then be able to somehow chage the pw so you couldnt trake them down?



@everyone: Since the chip would have to go under the skin do you think that there is a surten sge that this would have to be done by that is if the parents chose to have their child chiped?

RinoaRose


Akhakhu

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:24 pm


wotfan
and of course laws in place preventing government abuse.

But laws are protected by the gov! That would be like letting major companies write employee union rules, lol.

Besides, we've all seen how much respect the government has had for privacy laws lately...

@Rinoa: I'm not sure the pros outweigh the cons, or even do so in enough quantity to warrant something like that. There's an expression - "those who are willing to sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."

I'm not saying I would be against it. I'm just saying it's not a particularly clear-cut issue where I can definitively say where I stand.

There are other issues as well, such as the right of the child. Does the parent have the right to make such a decision for a child? This is surgical and, I would assume semi-permanent. It's also something that directly undermines the child's rights to privacy (again, the government thing). In other words, are there ethical issues in allowing a parent to make such a decision for an infant?

@Wotfan: I'm Kukushka, silly smile Same hair, different person.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:42 pm


I don't buy into the ubergovernment conspiracies. I mean really, there's more strigent things than a simple microchip. I'm sure plenty of us have cell phones.

I think society is overfreaked about kidnappings, molestations, etc., it's all about the availability heuristic. What about the safe and good things occuring? I'm more worried about other people abusing this versus the government. It is confusing how one is angry when agencies want to put cameras on every corner and cross the lines of liberty and freedom, but it's okay to do this to our kids when it's the same thing.

I think your information is incorrect. I'm not sure about the techology of human microchip, but I think you are mixing up the technology used in pets and GPS systems. They are just used IF the lost dog is taken to a vet and scanned, not tracked down with a GPS used in the wild on, say, dolphins to track their travelling patterns. Not to mention how big that thing would be on a child to work effectively compared to their body sizes? In order to track down a pet like this, they do make GPS collars, but those aren't very small.

Quote:
How does the microchip work?

Each microchip carries a unique number that is logged onto a
national database. Against this number key information is stored
about the dog and its owner including the dog's name, the owner's
name and address and a record of the dog's vaccinations.

When a scanner is passed over the microchip low frequency radio
waves created by the scanner activate the microchip, allowing the
unique number to be read.


As for certain age, it really depends on the technology used. But why stop there? The military is working on a new body armor that is lightweight and can transmit body details (BP, temp, etc.) to a receiver and can also adjust to point blank bullet impact and distant ones. Why not put that on every child? I know a man who will not ride in any car without a helmet.
Where does the line of safety get drawn?

lunashock


Savina

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:02 pm


Apparently this isn't as new as an idea as you think. In another country, don't remember which (Germany?) they tested with putting GPS microchips (yes, they can be small, unlike the collars... but the collars are meant to be temporary, not permenant) in life-term prisoners. If they escape, they'd have to carve this thing out of their flesh before they were tracked down.

I don't think chipping kids is a bad idea. I'm not even really talking about GPS devices, but the simple coded chips like in pets.
I know multiple people who's toddlers figure out ways to get out of the house unnoticed. Wouldn't it be nice to know that if a neighbor finds them and calls the cops, that the cops could come scan your kid, and instantly have your address and phone number on file? Sounds nice to me.

However, the risk to that is being able to protect it so that if some pervert got ahold of a scanning device, that he wouldn't insantly have your location information. Maybe if the cop got a code from the chip that he then typed into his computer in his car with his badge number or something to verify.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:38 pm


Well, I know they all ready are experimenting with the true microchips (without GPS) to contain medical information for those with allergies and the like. There's a lot of iffy things with it and really I think the pros and cons weigh about the same.

I do like the idea of the information being able to accessed in case of emergencies, but I wonder about the ease of abuse as well. I have a hard time equating microchips in children to, say, vaccines which is much more likely to occur.

lunashock


RinoaRose

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:22 pm


@lunashock: I get your point about people being uptight about thinks such as kidnapping and molestation and by the way you were talking it sounds to me like you have never expirenced any of thoughs thinks before in your life. Well take it from someone who has had her fare share of dealing with both of these things it is a big deal and people should be how did you put it yeah "overfreaked" about these issues. Just for a minute I would like you to put your self in the shoes of a woman whos child had been kidnapped (I saw one of your earlier posts and you said you had a son) how do you think you would feel. And also I have tried to make it clear that this hole micro chip thing is a "what if" senario. I for one as a parent would do anything to keep my kids safe as I am sure most parents would.
And if you had read all my postes you would have seen that when I brought this subject up I made it clear that not just anyone would be able to acess the chip a code of some kind would be needed. Which means if you were to wake up one morning and someone had came into you home a taken your child all you would have to do is call the cops and give them a code to acess the chip and then they would be able to find your son.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:55 am


No offense, but you don't know what goes through my head. wink Just because I don't think along the same lines doesn't mean I haven't thought of it or I'm a heartles b*****d, but I learned a long time ago, I can't let fear rule my life.

You're talking chips with GPS devices. I'm not an idiot, I'm aware this is a "whatif" scenario. If it wasn't, this whole conversation would be moot, of course. Yeah, I used to be that overanxious, overparanoid mom, but good common sense and teaching your children the same things go a LONG way. And your examples are really overexaggerated as well. Check out the statistics, the VAST majority of abductions are from family members and someone you know. It's not the brooding stranger in the night. I know my son's school, you have to be on a list and ALWAYS show ID when picking up and dropping your child off. I have alarm systems in my house. Unless the person has the SOLE purpose of taking my child, it's going to be a pretty damn hard thing to do. And if you're going to be freaked out over something that slim, what about the other dangers? Why not cover your child in Microban so they don't get sick? Silly, isn't it?

And the kidnappings/molestations, while it's sad and they do occur, they occur LESS than they did years ago. It's just the media has more attention on negative news. Check out the statistics. It's also not hard to neutralize GPS systems either. If someone is going to take the time and effort to kidnap your child in this extreme circumstance, they'll do their homework.

Yes, I think the information on a chip is a good idea, but the GPS thing is a bit silly, and you did ask for opinions. Availability heuristic, I tell ya. Common sense and teaching your kids safety is the best thing you can do. It's like those idiots who put their kids name, school, and activity on their car. They'd be the ones to get a chip and not teach their kid safety. If the arguement "If it saves one child, it's worth it" well what about other extreme measures?

lunashock



Designated Panda


Punctual Protagonist

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:06 am


User Image
I think the idea of sticking a microchip in my son would be a slippery slope. While I am all for the protection of my son. Part of it is teaching them common sense.

Then there's the whole it might prevent molestation. Most molestation cases are committed by some one the child and even family know. They are people the family thought they could trust. How is a microchip going to protect against that?

As for kidnappings who's to say they won't remove the chip?

Not only that first you have to realize the child is missing. Who's to say the child won't be dead by the time you find them anyway? When it comes to kidnapping cases for children the first 24 hours is the most crucial time. Even then sometimes finding them before that window is over isn't enough.

There is no way to 100% protect your child. You just do the best you can and pray that it's enough. I'm lucky enough to live in a rural area, but apparently even that isn't enough sometimes. A man tried to grab two children in my neighborhood as they were walking home from their school bus. My son will be lucky because he'll have older cousins that can drive him to school though, but not all children are so lucky.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:17 am


@lunashock: I can see were your coming form and I made no attempet to say I could read your mind. However all I am saying is that if we have the tecnology to do these things why not? I am by no means saying that I would do it to my kids, I do think however that if we as a socity have the means to do this it should atleast be offered. Point blank if we can do it for our pets why not our kids?

@Designated Panda: I never once said that this chip could protect a kid from being molested because the only thing that can save a child from that expirence is haveing aware adults around them that want to keep them safe who are willing to look for the signs. I also understand your point about someone being able to remove the chip but just stop for a minute and think about it if you chiped your son who all would know about it?

RinoaRose



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Morgenmuffel


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:58 pm


Well, if we're going to start comparing our children to pets now, ( rolleyes ) we can assume the procedures for chipping them will be the same: when a pet is microchipped, it's always in the same spot and it's not that deep in the tissue. For the sake of argument, anyone going to such lengths would most likely know where to look for a chip and be able to find evidence it was implanted and remove it. Anyone who wants to hurt your child isn't going to flinch at the idea of slitting open their skin and digging a chip out.

While I'm not big on government conspiracy theories, the idea of being microchipped does bother me. I can see both sides on it, but I'm not so sure that if I were given the option, I'd microchip my kids.

Being a plugged in parent is key: as has already been mentioned, almost all kidnapping/molestation cases are people who the child and the parents know. Being aware makes all the difference.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:34 pm


Pirate Dirge

Being a plugged in parent is key: as has already been mentioned, almost all kidnapping/molestation cases are people who the child and the parents know. Being aware makes all the difference.
I completely agree =3 You took the words right off my keyboard.

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RisSohma

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:52 pm


Wouldn't that be invading the rites of the kids tho? I am 15, so i don tknow if i would be considered a kid but there is no way that i would physicaly allow some1 to insert a chip into me...no...way...
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