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Okay, this will undoubtdly spark a small debate once a few choicers decide to join (with the exception mabey of Waters) but I think it bull s**t to say pro-life individuals are anti-woman, espescialy when tha individual is a woman. To say the a woman must be of a certain beleife to be a feminist is, in and of itself, anti-feminist. If she decides to tell you to shut the hell up and thathe'll beleive what she wants about being a woman, that is feminism. But if she at the same time tells you to shut the hell up and she'll beleive what she wants, and that every one esle is wrong, that is anti-feminism. Spucificly for example, if you walk up to a woman and tell her that if she is not pro-choice she is an anti-feminist, then, in reality, it is you who are the anti-feminist.

I don't really understand the whole concept of Pro-Life == anti-women (I mean, what does that make Pro-Life women?).

I have met a couple Pro-Lifers who hate women (though never in the PLG) but by no means are they in the majority.

As near as I can tell, there are about as many Pro-Choicers who hate unborn humans as there are Pro-Lifers who hate women, which is to say only a small handful.

Even though there are many Feminists who are Pro-Choice, I don't see why so many Feminist groups seem to consider it necessary in order to be a Feminist. I mean, why should one have to believe that abortion should be legal in order to believe that women are equal to men?

This is pretty much how I see it too. I don't think that pro-life is anti-women, but I think forcing a woman through unwanted pregnancy is a breach of rights.

"My right to swing my fist ends when it meets your face."

Or something to that affect. whee

I don't it either. I'm a woman so does that mean I hate myself or any other woman? No.

I also agree with the way should woman have abortions to be equal to men?
We should get the same rights like eduacation,jobs, same pay, voting ect... but woman are still made physically different then men and we should be o.k. with it.
Why should woman be ashamed that she can carry a baby? It's just the way our bodies were made. Abortion isn't going to change the fact that womens bodies were created to carry and birth a child.

You can choose to not have child and can choose to work over being a housewife or getting married. See those rights weren't taken away from us. We can work and vote and all that.

...Not only did you degrade woman in your post...but mena dn children too. Your reasoning for why abortion should stay legal is why I hate almost all "choicers." You're reasoning isn't even pro-choice from what i can tell, and is degrading to woman. Why? YOu just said why. "However, I think abortion does have to remain legal for women to stay equal to men, so that there is as much choice involved as possible.

If abortion isn't legal, you can't "choose not to have a child". Men can choose work over family; if abortion is illegal, women can't."

That is so degrading to women and men btoh. You've just effectivly told us that women need an operational procedure to be equal to men. Your reasoning is exactly why so many woman who actualy want their children will choose to abort to stay in the working class and eventualy live in painful regret, because people liek you have made it so they can't have both. Its either her children or her job. I'm prepared to say you are not and equalist as you clame to be. If you were, you would feel that woman should have all the same rights as men, with out ever having to sacrifice or compormise any part of being a woman. That is equalism, the ability to be diffrent, but retain the same rights as every one else.

This is why I honostly feel pro-life is far more woman friendly then pro-choice. We want to take away one little thing that we feel should have never been ruled in on in the first place, while at the same time we want to give so much more. We want to help change scociety to be more woman friendly. Escpecialy in time when she may feel the need for an abortion. Pregnant woman are almost alwasy looked down upon in todays scociety, especialy the youn and in school, young and working, or simply working. They're told they will destroy their lives and their children. We want to make it so this kind of reasoning is no longer in the majority and that women like these get the help they want and need. We want to make it so that a woman with a bussy work schedual can have her child and spend time with him, to introduce a program that would require her job shorten her hours for several months to that if she wanted to she could go home and be with her son or daughter. We want to make things so your reasoning dies, and a woman will never have to choose between her family and her job.

Men don't have to choose between their jobs and their family unless they're workaholics. Many business will reguire him to come into work longer or later or suffer being written up or worse. He's not choosing to work more, he's being required to. And usialy when you work later on one day of the week, on your next week schedual you usialyu have less hours to work since you worked those monthly hours the previous week.

Another thing you said just out right disgusts me. YOu say having to choose between work and tackign care of your child like its a bad thing. Like having to take maternity leave to care for a child you wanted is goign to hurt her.

How ever, if abortion is gogin to stay legal, then men should have the right to opt out of child reering and support. Woman can choose between being a mother or not, men should be able to choose between being a father or not.

I know I know. I'm sorry for hwo i said it, but not what I said. She stated quite plainly ( wiht out mentioni ng if the woman is wantingly pregnant or not) in a way that suggests with out abortion a woman can't function normaly in society. I find that horribly degrading to even infer.


We've been through this time and again Waters. Its the womans right to not be pregnant against anothe rhumans life. I already knwo which is more important, and I knwo you disagree, so the argument is a bit moot at this point.

I fail to see how. I don't see why women shouldn't be able to choose a career over having children and still want to have sex. Men can do this easily; why not women?



Well, I feel that you can't be an effective parent AND have a job for the first few years of a child's life. I haven't made it so they can't have both. Yeah, sure, later on in their life it becomes easier to be a working mother, but the first few years are vitally important and if you're not around to teach them how to walk, then THAT is the result of no abortion.



Indeed. But children don't raise themselves, which is an issue you are failing to address. PARENTS raise children. It is an accepted fact that men NEED women to have children, and vice versa. However, it is the WOMAN who gets the repercussions if she is not in a relationship. If a woman wants a career and has an unwanted pregnancy, inevitably she will have to take time off to give birth - quite a bit more than if she had an abortion, even if she was to place to child up for adoption.



I want to make society more woman-friendly. I think you'll actually find that most pro-choicers do. Some women don't want children, and pro-choice allows for that. Some women do want children. Some women aren't sure until they get pregnant. If you talk to most pro-choicers, they want to reduce the amount of abortions that women have for various reasons. Much like you are later saying. But making abortion illegal doesn't solve the issue. However, I am now going off on a tangent.



My reasoning is that abortion allows women to choose a career over children if they don't want children. How is that reasoning ever going to die while women are around who don't want children?



Not working myself, I wouldn't know that. I understand being required to work more. But my dad never came home early one week and late the next.



I don't think my point came across. For women who DO NOT want children, choosing between work and taking maternity leave IS a bad thing. Maybe that didn't get across clearly last time, but that is what I was trying to say. What, you think I don't want women to have children?



If the father did not agree with the mother's decision to keep the baby, I agree that he should not have to pay child support or be responsible for it in any way. I also believe that if he makes that decision, it should be permanent.

I'm sorry that I was unclear in what I was saying. As Waters said, I meant in a world where women have unwanted pregnancies, abortion is required to keep the balance, as long as what I said in the above paragraph could come into effect.