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Kiashana
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:05 pm


So this evening I went to the confirmation services at my local Reform temple for a dear friend of mine. I myself go to a Conservative synagogue and feel extremely comfortable there. However, at this service, I felt more out of place than I would at a church! This is supposed to be Judaism? The only thing that fit in my view of things was the large quanities of food after the service! There was English, and the Amidah had the Ima'hot, and Ha'Col instead of Ha'Meytim, and they played guitar a lot, and someone was playing 'Jerusalem of Gold' on a harp during the silent prayer which was just totally weird, and they sang Beatles as part of the service! And normally I wouldn't complain about Beatles but it's a religious service! Plus they did a Torah reading and a Haftarah in the evening, but hugely shortened. Like a three verse Haftarah. And the Amidah was changed from a page to five lines. And I could go on and on.
Anyway, my point is that I felt hugely uncomfortable. But- they're Jewish! And I feel like I sound like such a bigot when I say I'm not comfortable there, and it bothers me.
Do any of you have difficulty going to a service where they do less (or more) than you are used to? Does it make you feel hugely uncomfortable, to the point where you wonder if they're even really Jewish? Doesn't that just seem so wrong?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:08 pm


I'll post my feelings on my experiences with different denominations (they're not really that hostile, I promise XD) but first, a question for reform Jews.

WHY THE HA-KOL?

I never understood it. crying

oh em jyu


T-Dubs75338

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:39 pm


The Beatles, abd the Harp are new, but the rest is like a normal reform service. My synagogue, which is conservative, also adds the Imahot.

BTW, Ha'Metim means "The Dead", and Ha'Col means "Everyone". Apparently the Reform movement didn't like the dead, so they changed it.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:36 am


T-Dubs75338
The Beatles, abd the Harp are new, but the rest is like a normal reform service. My synagogue, which is conservative, also adds the Imahot.

BTW, Ha'Metim means "The Dead", and Ha'Col means "Everyone". Apparently the Reform movement didn't like the dead, so they changed it.

I always understood it as they were uncomfortable with that section. The context is "Meh'Chaiyah Metim" which means to bring back the dead. Apparently the Reform movement doesn't subscribe to that view of what will happen in the end of the world.
Also, I know that was pretty much a normal Reform service. But that's what bothers me, that I was soooo uncomfortable.

Kiashana
Crew


oh em jyu

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:30 am


T-Dubs
Apparently the Reform movement didn't like the dead, so they changed it.
Reform Jews hate the dead! Reform Jews hate the dead! xd

I knew it had something to do with an uncomfort about speaking of the dead. I vaguely remember hearing something like they didn't want to bring up something like that during the Amidah which is supposed to be praising and I guess happy..? I dunno. We've got a lot of Reform Jews in here, I'm sure someone will turn up.

Anyway. Going out of any comfort zone is hard, but especially when concerning something so deep-rooted as one's way of practicing their religion. Of course, it's never been as strange to me as going to a service in a church (I still feel as though I'm in a Jewish house of worship whenever I go to a reform shul ^^; ), but each denomination holds to different traditions and practices, which can be overwhelming.

Officially, I suppose I've been to four different sects' services. Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative (which I hail from), and Orthodox. However, it has been my experience that the more liberal you go, the more varied each individual synagogue becomes.

For instance, I've been to about four or five different Chabbads, and they've all been pretty much identical. Every shul has its own quirks, but as a whole the experience was basically the same.

I've been to more Conservative shuls than I care to count, and I definitely saw more differences in each of those than in the Chabads. And each Reform shul I visit could probably start its own branch of Judaism, that sect is so un-uniform. As for the Reconstructionists? I've been to services with them ~5 times. Two were held in someone's house, one in an actual structure, and one outside. They're very neat people.

Because the Orthodox are so resolved in their efforts to follow the Torah exactly, they don't stray from each other. With the more liberal movements, however, there is such room for different interpretations that each synagogue kind of decides to interpret the Torah how they will. That's what makes me most uncomfortable about visitng Reform and Reconstructionist establishments- the fact that I have absolutely no idea how they're going to represent Judaism and how they'll worship.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:03 am


oh em jyu
That's what makes me most uncomfortable about visitng Reform and Reconstructionist establishments- the fact that I have absolutely no idea how they're going to represent Judaism and how they'll worship.

That fits things on the nail. (weird saying- ignore my weirdness please) At an Orthodox or Conservative shul I'm pretty comfortable. I know how things will be done, the melodies don't change much from place to place, it's all comfortable. The only thing that would make me feel uncomfortable is an Orthodox shul with a mechitzah, but that's just because I'm from an egalitarian congregation.
But when I go to a Reform service, it isn't the same Judaism that I was raised with! And that just drives me nuts.

Kiashana
Crew


darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:08 am


Wow...Err....Maybe they should try a little more not to be as reformed? sweatdrop
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:13 am


darkphoenix1247
Wow...Err....Maybe they should try a little more not to be as reformed? sweatdrop
But the thing is that they are a reform temple, we can't tell them that!!

Kiashana
Crew


darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:44 pm


There's a fine line between being reformed and being....that. It's like they don't even care about Jewish values at all!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm


darkphoenix1247
There's a fine line between being reformed and being....that. It's like they don't even care about Jewish values at all!
Except they're definitely Jewish. There was food afterwards! This was just... Not what I could be comfortable with. I can't call it not-Jewish.

Kiashana
Crew


oh em jyu

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:56 am


Honestly, it comes down to just not 'yuck'ing someone's 'yum.' Whenever someone sees food I'm eating and remarks on its grossness, I say 'Don't yuck my yum!' xD I'm sure there's many more-liberal Jews who feel alienated in Conservative and Orthodox shuls. Seeing as we're all still Jewish, all of us denominations, we've got to try our best to make everyone feel somewhat at home everywhere.

Usually this is done through food.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:11 am


oh em jyu
Seeing as we're all still Jewish, all of us denominations, we've got to try our best to make everyone feel somewhat at home everywhere.

Usually this is done through food.
Yes! Oh my god, so after that confirmation service ended the goyim friends who came were asking, "So what now?" and I was all like, "It's a Jewish event! There's food."

Kiashana
Crew


famusamu

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:06 pm


We Messianics know how to cook and have great havdalahs too! 3nodding
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:36 pm


Well, a reform jew here. The temple you described seems quite a bit more reform than we are. Though we too add in the Ima'hot, but you usually don't hear any beatles. Also, we say ha'Metim, or ha'Col. For us, it really depends on personal preference about how you conduct yourself during a service, what exact words you say. For those of you out there who may be feeling a little high and mighty right now, let me tell a little story. High holidays. We were well into one of the services, when this guy from out of town who was worshipping with us stands up. I believe he was orthodox, and he started calling us not real jews, fakes and such. Mostly, his problem was that the rabbi conducting the service was a woman. Now, some of you out there may not agree with the way that we do things, because that is not the way you were raised. For some people however, their way is how they can best connect to G-D. Kindly do not voice your displeasure in the middle of high holidays. [/rambling rant]

gotyaoi


gotyaoi

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:42 pm


To summarize what little point there was in the above post, we worship in the way that feels the most comfortable or spiritual to us. For each person, that might be different. So be it. 3nodding
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