Choose life. Stop donation refusal.

[Half Baked SF]

A little contradiction I found interesting.

Jehovah's Witnesses despise the practice of blood donation. They are not required to go against their morals in the name of human life under any circumstances. Bodily integrity protects their right to refuse to give or recieve blood.

I am personally opposed to reproduction with the world in its current state. I do NOT, under any circumstances, want to bring a child into this world unless the apocolypse comes tomorrow and wipes out most of the world's population. This world is too ******** up for my tastes, adn frankly, I'd rather worry about people already here than become a surrogate for a couple too high up on their horse to adopt a Malaysian child with HIV.

However, there are many people who expect me to give up my body moral beliefs and allow other "people" to live.

Why should I be forced to give up bodily integrity in the name of human life when my JW friend is not? Is it because I am to be "punished" for consenting to sex? That can't be it, because convicted felons aren't forced to give it up. So "fault" can't be the issue here.

This appears to be a(nother) classic case of the unborn being more important than the born, folks.  

[The Velveteen Violinist]

Really? I never knew that- wow......

Huh. That's strange....

Well, I'm glad blood donation ain't required, but there's a tad bit of irony in there.

I mean, they're allowed NOT to give 'life' for the sake of BD, but women aren't?  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Wow. I hadn't thought of that!

It's absurd. I suppose, though, that it comes down to "everyone is allowed bodily domain... until it offends people." Their refusal to donate blood or organs doesn't piss too many people off, but abortions piss a lot of people off.  

[SterileNeedles]

Is it against your religion to reproduce? Because if it isn't then your analogy makes no sense to me.

Jehova's Witnesses don't give blood because it goes against their religion not their personal beliefs. Now there's no telling how many of them actually aren't personally against giving blood, some may be, so may not be. But they don't do it because their religion says that they should not.

Some Catholics are actually for abortion despite the fact that their religion tells them otherwise.
"Abortion is always a contentious political issue, but it is especially so for Catholic politicians who support the right to an abortion, which church leaders strongly oppose. The split between some Catholic pols and prelates became a showdown during the 2004 campaign, with several bishops threatening to withhold communion from Catholic elected officials who support abortion rights. While the majority of the hierarchy did not take such a hard-line stance, the so-called "wafer war" did prompt developments that will likely have an impact:"

Something my bf sent me a while ago, unfortunately he didn't post a source.

My religion tells me that divorce is wrong in the eyes of God. Do I personally think that divorce is wrong? No, not necessarily. If the person involved is trying to escape from an abusive relationship and is married under God then I don't think she/he is wrong for divorcing their spouse because the other spouse already violated God's law by abusing him/her. (Does 'to have and to hold and love them' etc. mean nothing to these people?) I will probably not get divorced because I choose not to violate God's law and so I will really think about who it is that I am marrying someday.

Your analogy doesn't make any sense to me. They don't give blood because of their religion, not because of personal beliefs (unless they truly, deeply believe the laws that they follow and take them to a personal level.)  

[nobhdy]

Toga! Toga!

A little contradiction I found interesting.

Jehovah's Witnesses despise the practice of blood donation. They are not required to go against their morals in the name of human life under any circumstances. Bodily integrity protects their right to refuse to give or recieve blood.

Everybody has the right not to give or recieve blood, friend. If it were exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses, and everybody else in the country was forced to, then you'd have an interesting issue.

As it is, I cannot rip out your heart and implant it into myself just because I need it to live. That is rediculous, and no sound mind on this earth would argue it.

The problem is that some people believe the fetus to be a person to whom the inalienable right to life has been guarenteed. That is the fundamental difference.

I hope that answers your question.  

[Half Baked SF]

SterileNeedles

Is it against your religion to reproduce? Because if it isn't then your analogy makes no sense to me.

Jehova's Witnesses don't give blood because it goes against their religion not their personal beliefs. Now there's no telling how many of them actually aren't personally against giving blood, some may be, so may not be. But they don't do it because their religion says that they should not.

Some Catholics are actually for abortion despite the fact that their religion tells them otherwise.
"Abortion is always a contentious political issue, but it is especially so for Catholic politicians who support the right to an abortion, which church leaders strongly oppose. The split between some Catholic pols and prelates became a showdown during the 2004 campaign, with several bishops threatening to withhold communion from Catholic elected officials who support abortion rights. While the majority of the hierarchy did not take such a hard-line stance, the so-called "wafer war" did prompt developments that will likely have an impact:"

Something my bf sent me a while ago, unfortunately he didn't post a source.

My religion tells me that divorce is wrong in the eyes of God. Do I personally think that divorce is wrong? No, not necessarily. If the person involved is trying to escape from an abusive relationship and is married under God then I don't think she/he is wrong for divorcing their spouse because the other spouse already violated God's law by abusing him/her. (Does 'to have and to hold and love them' etc. mean nothing to these people?) I will probably not get divorced because I choose not to violate God's law and so I will really think about who it is that I am marrying someday.

Your analogy doesn't make any sense to me. They don't give blood because of their religion, not because of personal beliefs (unless they truly, deeply believe the laws that they follow and take them to a personal level.)

When one has a religion they generally have the belief that the teachings of that religion are right. Your examples of unconventional Christians kinda kills your argument, because obviously the personal beliefs of these people, not the religion, are the way they are. Or are you trying to say that one's personal beliefs are only valid when they're not part of a religion?  

[Half Baked SF]

nobhdy

Toga! Toga!

A little contradiction I found interesting.

Jehovah's Witnesses despise the practice of blood donation. They are not required to go against their morals in the name of human life under any circumstances. Bodily integrity protects their right to refuse to give or recieve blood.

Everybody has the right not to give or recieve blood, friend. If it were exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses, and everybody else in the country was forced to, then you'd have an interesting issue.

As it is, I cannot rip out your heart and implant it into myself just because I need it to live. That is rediculous, and no sound mind on this earth would argue it.

The problem is that some people believe the fetus to be a person to whom the inalienable right to life has been guarenteed. That is the fundamental difference.

I hope that answers your question.

I'm well aware of all of this. My question was that why should why should be people allowed to refuse to give part of their bodies for the sake of human life when I am expected to forget BI even when my personal beliefs tell me not to.  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Why can't morality be respected without religion? You can have morals and principles and beleifs without religion! Why should it be the only thing that protects you?

And what about when what your religion tells you to do contradicts the law and endangers society?

I'm all for freedom of religion, I just hate it when people use it as an excuse to be bigoted assholes or do stupid, evil s**t.  

[Half Baked SF]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

Why can't morality be respected without religion? You can have morals and principles and beleifs without religion! Why should it be the only thing that protects you?

And what about when what your religion tells you to do contradicts the law and endangers society?

I'm all for freedom of religion, I just hate it when people use it as an excuse to be bigoted assholes or do stupid, evil s**t.

I'm confused. Is this directed at me, Sterile, or nobody in particular?  

[Reinna Astarel]

That's always made little sense to me as well, that there are people out there who both refuse to donate blood, or whatsuch, and at the same time declare that women should always be forced to keep the pregnancy.

Well, if the fetus's 'right to life' is so strong that we can ignore the woman's right to bodily integrity to maintain it, you'd think that the average person's 'right to life' is strong enough to violate other people's bodily integrity to maintain it, up to and including mandatory blood donation, kidney donation, marrow donation etc.  

[nobhdy]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

Why can't morality be respected without religion? You can have morals and principles and beleifs without religion! Why should it be the only thing that protects you?

And what about when what your religion tells you to do contradicts the law and endangers society?

I'm all for freedom of religion, I just hate it when people use it as an excuse to be bigoted assholes or do stupid, evil s**t.

Ah. The freedom of religion. Why can't we all be free to practice our own religion(or none) without the government stepping in and saying what is moral and what isn't? Isn't that the ultimate freedom of religion?

Basically congress can't pass a law prefering one religion over another, and it can't prohibit the free exercise of a religion.

So why is it that they want to make moral issues into governmental issues? Why can't a church marry a gay couple if it so chooses? etc.. etc..

And as for Reinna Astarel, I must simply say: "Well put" for your second paragraph. That is truly the irony is it not?  

[MipsyKitten]

It is against my personal morals to give birth. One reason, is like yours (Toga), that the world is too ******** up to bring a child into it. Another reason, is that if I feel I have something in my body which doesn't belong, I want to rip my guts out. It's like what I feel extremely depressed, I want to scratch my skin off. It's not a good idea for me to be pregnant, for either my physical or mental health.

That being said, when I die I've already decided that doctors can use my organs for someone else. I have it stated on my state I.D. I figure that I'm not using the organs anymore, so someone else can use them. I'd get a new body soon anyway XD

I just looked at the American Red Cross website, and it says you can't give blood if you're pregnant. Thought that might be interesting to throw in there.

Oh, and I can't donate blood anyway (might apply to organs too, I don't know) because of the mad cow disease outbreak in England a few years back.  

[Half Baked SF]

MipsyKitten

It is against my personal morals to give birth. One reason, is like yours (Toga), that the world is too ******** up to bring a child into it. Another reason, is that if I feel I have something in my body which doesn't belong, I want to rip my guts out. It's like what I feel extremely depressed, I want to scratch my skin off. It's not a good idea for me to be pregnant, for either my physical or mental health.

That being said, when I die I've already decided that doctors can use my organs for someone else. I have it stated on my state I.D. I figure that I'm not using the organs anymore, so someone else can use them. I'd get a new body soon anyway XD

I just looked at the American Red Cross website, and it says you can't give blood if you're pregnant. Thought that might be interesting to throw in there.

Oh, and I can't donate blood anyway (might apply to organs too, I don't know) because of the mad cow disease outbreak in England a few years back.

If that's so, meaning you can't donate organs, wouldn't that mean you can't give your organs after death as well?  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Toga! Toga!

PhaedraMcSpiffy

Why can't morality be respected without religion? You can have morals and principles and beleifs without religion! Why should it be the only thing that protects you?

And what about when what your religion tells you to do contradicts the law and endangers society?

I'm all for freedom of religion, I just hate it when people use it as an excuse to be bigoted assholes or do stupid, evil s**t.

I'm confused. Is this directed at me, Sterile, or nobody in particular?

Umm... nobody specific. Just a rant, really. Something I've wanted to get off my chest.

It's just that it pisses me off when other people say somebody can't do something when it isn't harmful to themselves or society.