Welcome to Gaia! ::

it seems that a lot of people here free that if something is "unnatural" than it's bad. why is this? and how do you define unnatural?

If one is to claim humans are not natural, that begs defining what exactly they are. And, if they are not natural, it is implied inherently that they are supernatural. Such a bunch of human-centric nonsense... it would make me laugh it it didn't have such disasterous consequences on the world around us. It breeds lack of respect for anything 'outside' of humanity (I put that word in quotes, because there is nothing on this Earth, which for all purposes is an ecologically closed system, that does not influence humanity in some way... directly or indirectly).

Everything is inherently natural, as it arises from the laws governing our physical world (let your imagination fill in examples here). Humanity is certainly nowhere close to being an exception to this. We, mere beings of flesh and blood, who in their lives truly do nothing more (in essence) than eat, sleep, and mate? How dare humans think of themselves as above the 'natural' world? Such arrogance... hmph!

Some people believe the supernatural exists. This is the other half of the polarity concerning naturalness. Polarities naturally lend themselves to gradients. Setting aside for the moment that it is absurd to suggest that humanity is anything other than natural (alongside its creations from electricity to concrete buildings and supercomputers) as a species that generally sets itself apart from other life forms, it makes sense to most humans to set us apart as somehow not part of nature. I find that... unfortunate. It bars a greater understanding of life in general and the great interdependency that exists among all living things. Especially with this sterile industrialized life, it is all too easy to forget that the food on our plates comes from a source. Nature.

If there is a gradient, perhaps, humanity falls somewhere not quite in the range of 'nature.' But even if this is the case, it is humanity who sets up these definitions. If we want to speak from nature's point of view (which could be said to be the POV of the ecologist) it is impossible for a species such as humanity to currently be classified as seperate from nature or not natural, since we both evolved on this world, are an integral part of it, and will continue to rely on exterior natural sources to survive for all eternity. That's the nature of life. Every single living organism takes something from nature to fuel its life. There's not a single exception. Until this is broken, all life is natural as it is a derivative of the nature that came before it.

Perhaps the argument is a bit circular, but hey... this isn't exactly something I've bothered to ponder before (or at least not from this angle). Guess that to think of humanity as anything but natural is nonsensical and alien to me. whee

I think it's what we made with our own hands that's unnatural. Don't take that in a Christain way, I'm an Atheist. We are natural, what we eat is natrual, we we breed (the cows, dogs, cats, and whatever else) is natural (to a point). Our houses, our techonolgy, our medecines aren't, or at least not anymore.

I don't know of a better place to ask this, so I'll ask here. Can you prove that reality doesn't exist, and therefore is false?

You can prove reality is a farce, in as much as you can prove a dream is not real.

Prove what? Reality is false, or that a dream is false?

I will prove reality is false, when I see proof that a dream is false. Until then do not ask me to prove or disprove reality.

i cant prove its real; you cant prove it isnt.

i'll keep my ideas, you keep yours.

Then what, if anything, is unnatural?