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 Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:34 am
I'm an atheist, & I want to know why Christianity is important.
Why are you reading the book that is called the "Bible" is it's nothing than just a made up book?
Why does 1 believe that `He` is there but can't prove it?
When Christians answer the question “Who Is Jesus?” they build their answer on the Bible, & why can't they be without the Bble, is it because they have so much faith that they think that everything in that book is true?
Because the love that Jesus offers comes in the form of a “personal relationship” with Him, many believers have particular definitions about who the Lord is to them, & I want to ask what kind of relationship can you have with someone is they are dead?
""We would be hopeless without God's initiative; he must initiate our relationship with him""-your minds are brainwashed by someone who is not real & is dead that you want to have a relationship with .
My friend who is an Atheist had a friend who was Christian, but once his Christian friend found out that he was an Atheist & wouldn't go to church with him, he turned his back on him. My question is: Why couldn't they be friends? Is it because of religion? If someone is different, you just turn your back on them? Is it because 1 may believe in God & the other 1 won't, is it because of that they can't be friends?______________________________ Quotes I found:_________________________________ Quote: The glory of Christianity is to conquer by forgiveness Quote: If you yield to God, you won't give in to sin Quote: If you're living for Christ you may lose some friends, but you won't lose their respect Quote: The Bible contains the vitamins for soul health ___________________________________________ & why do so many people think that he is great rolleyes ?Don't give me the answers such as (he died for our sins) or (he shed blood for us when he died)
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:08 am
Well, for starters, people don't believe in a made-up book. They believe it's not made up, kapiesh?
You can't prove He doesn't exist. You either believe in God, or you don't. It is not so clear cut which belief is fact.
Forget the miracles, Jesus was still a wonderful person. His miracles are not so important to me, rather than his teachings. He said we should love everyone, and I think he's right.
Personal relationship is not a literal thing. It's not like I wake up in the morning and get myself some breakfast and have a chat with Jesus, crucified in my kitchen. You may talk to Jesus, but it requires faith that he's there. It's like talking to someone in pitch darkness, they may not answer and you can't prove they're there you just have to believe.
The Christian who turns his back on his friend upon learning that he is an atheist is not a very good Christian at all. He's just a jerk.
What do you mean "Is that what you use to turn people Christian?" , you can't 'turn people Christian'. You can tell them what you believe, but you can't control their mind. If they convert, it's purely their desicion. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Saying that becoming a Christian will save them from sin only works if they believe there is sin to be saved from.
Some atheists can turn their backs on Christians when they become Christian, but that's not good either. The person you're talking about is not a nice person, he's not a good example of how a Christian should act.
rofl if you tell me the bible is a made up book one more time I'm going to have an anurism (spelling?). The point is that Christians believe it's not made up. It's like me asking you "How can you not believe in God when He's real?" But other than that, I think that is a silly quote. And I don't really think of the bible the bible that way.
Even without the miracles and the dying for our sins bit, Jesus is still great. He was a pacifist, and he said to love your neighbor, love your enemies, and always forgive. Even if I were not Christian I would like to follow his example. He was brilliant.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:24 am
Captain_Theoretical Well, for starters, people don't believe in a made-up book. They believe it's not made up, kapiesh? You can't prove He doesn't exist. You either believe in God, or you don't. It is not so clear cut which belief is fact. Forget the miracles, Jesus was still a wonderful person. His miracles are not so important to me, rather than his teachings. He said we should love everyone, and I think he's right. Personal relationship is not a literal thing. It's not like I wake up in the morning and get myself some breakfast and have a chat with Jesus, crucified in my kitchen. You may talk to Jesus, but it requires faith that he's there. It's like talking to someone in pitch darkness, they may not answer and you can't prove they're there you just have to believe. The Christian who turns his back on his friend upon learning that he is an atheist is not a very good Christian at all. He's just a jerk. What do you mean "Is that what you use to turn people Christian?" , you can't 'turn people Christian'. You can tell them what you believe, but you can't control their mind. If they convert, it's purely their desicion. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Saying that becoming a Christian will save them from sin only works if they believe there is sin to be saved from. Some atheists can turn their backs on Christians when they become Christian, but that's not good either. The person you're talking about is not a nice person, he's not a good example of how a Christian should act. rofl if you tell me the bible is a made up book one more time I'm going to have an anurism (spelling?). The point is that Christians believe it's not made up. It's like me asking you "How can you not believe in God when He's real?" But other than that, I think that is a silly quote. And I don't really think of the bible the bible that way. Even without the miracles and the dying for our sins bit, Jesus is still great. He was a pacifist, and he said to love your neighbor, love your enemies, and always forgive. Even if I were not Christian I would like to follow his example. He was brilliant.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:33 am
Quote: You always say that he's great, he's great.. what i so great about him? you can't explain that.. you're just using the bible to explain things, you can't explain what you know in your own words because you're getting it out of 1 book! I did actually say what was great about him. He was a pacifist. He loved his neighbors, he loved his enemies. He loved the tax collector when no one else would. He loved the prostitute when no one else would. The bible is also a historical document, Jesus wasn't entirely a figment of the writers' imagination. Regardless of whether he healed the sick and gave sight to the blind, he was still a nice guy. Your argument confuses me. What's so great about Abraham Lincoln? You can't explain that in your own words. You would only know what you learned in school. Are you trying to convince me Jesus was not a great man?
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:55 am
My thought that the bible is mostly made up or exaggerated aside Chained made some nice points. However, you seem to have missed the point that that one Christian person does not represent the whole religion. There are good, reasonable Christians here, like the Captain her and ryuu_chan. True, most Christians I've interacted with have been stuck-up pricks. It doesn't mean they're all like that. The bible has some cool ideas, like loving everyone. I don't consitter it truth or fiction. It's bit of both.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:09 am
Captain_Theoretical Quote: You always say that he's great, he's great.. what i so great about him? you can't explain that.. you're just using the bible to explain things, you can't explain what you know in your own words because you're getting it out of 1 book! I did actually say what was great about him. He was a pacifist. He loved his neighbors, he loved his enemies. He loved the tax collector when no one else would. He loved the prostitute when no one else would. The bible is also a historical document, Jesus wasn't entirely a figment of the writers' imagination. Regardless of whether he healed the sick and gave sight to the blind, he was still a nice guy. Your argument confuses me. What's so great about Abraham Lincoln? You can't explain that in your own words. You would only know what you learned in school. Are you trying to convince me Jesus was not a great man?
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:15 am
Dr. Kool My thought that the bible is mostly made up or exaggerated aside Chained made some nice points. However, you seem to have missed the point that that one Christian person does not represent the whole religion. There are good, reasonable Christians here, like the Captain her and ryuu_chan. True, most Christians I've interacted with have been stuck-up pricks. It doesn't mean they're all like that. The bible has some cool ideas, like loving everyone. I don't consitter it truth or fiction. It's bit of both.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:03 pm
I find it positively illolgical to not believe in a God. Not saying you are or anyone else.
First there is the teleological argument that shows the useful arrangement of the universe.
Second, information in the DNA. For evolution to take place on it's own there needs to be cell division and it relys on DNA which in turn relys on the information. Natural selection cannot explain the appearance of information, and since it relys on the information for it's creation story it cannot explain the creation of the information.
Third, the chemical soup theory makes no sense. The odds of the chemical soup making even 1 protien mollecule are one in one hundred thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion. Also to have a chemical soup you would find high contents of nigrogen since amino acids are highly nitrogenous. We find .015% nitrogen, not even close to the amount.
Fourth, Darwin's tree of life is completely uprooted by the cambrian explosion.
So why do I believe in Christianity? The Greeks and other people in ancient times made their gods, but they were not infinite. They killed eachother, commited adultry with one another. It clearly shows a human mind created it. While in christianity God is infinite, God never had a beginning or an end. That is something not comprehendable by the human mind showing we couldn't create it. So there is 3 main choices that have such a God Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Judaism being the oldest. Christianity is part Judaism and I don't choose Islam because it is not as old so that means that their God is infinite, but it is after Judaism and Christianity.
Those are some of the reasons why I believe.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:22 pm
Quote: I'm not trying to convince you that he was not a great man, I'm not trying to ruin anything either, stick to your religion, I just want to know why you say he's great, you know that you wasn't there when he healed or when he was a pacifist, anyone can be a pacifist, what is so great about him that you keep on saying that he's great? I want real answers & not the answers that you're getting from the book while you're reading it! Anyone can be a pacifist, but not many people excercize their morals as completely as Jesus did. I think people should love everyone, but there are many times when I find myself judging people, holding grudges, and disliking people. He loved his enemies, he practiced what he preached. Few people in history were entirely good, there were many that were good people but still had downfalls. There were the founding fathers, who wrote the constitution and said that everyone be treated equally, but they owned slaves. And there are even more bad people in history, with no redeeming qualities except perhaps that they committed their crimes in the ignorance of the time. Just because any book can have cool ideas doesn't mean the bible doesn't have cool ideas. And the bible had them first. Imotoku, Muslims are people who practice Islam. That's just a technical error. I don't think Judaism or Islam are wrong, per se, I just don't identify with them. Christianity just seems to fit with me. Evolution does not rule out God and missing pieces in does not quite rule out evolution either.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:05 pm
Captain_Theoretical Quote: I'm not trying to convince you that he was not a great man, I'm not trying to ruin anything either, stick to your religion, I just want to know why you say he's great, you know that you wasn't there when he healed or when he was a pacifist, anyone can be a pacifist, what is so great about him that you keep on saying that he's great? I want real answers & not the answers that you're getting from the book while you're reading it! Anyone can be a pacifist, but not many people excercize their morals as completely as Jesus did. I think people should love everyone, but there are many times when I find myself judging people, holding grudges, and disliking people. He loved his enemies, he practiced what he preached. Few people in history were entirely good, there were many that were good people but still had downfalls. There were the founding fathers, who wrote the constitution and said that everyone be treated equally, but they owned slaves. And there are even more bad people in history, with no redeeming qualities except perhaps that they committed their crimes in the ignorance of the time. Just because any book can have cool ideas doesn't mean the bible doesn't have cool ideas. And the bible had them first. Imotoku, Muslims are people who practice Islam. That's just a technical error. I don't think Judaism or Islam are wrong, per se, I just don't identify with them. Christianity just seems to fit with me. Evolution does not rule out God and missing pieces in does not quite rule out evolution either. Whoops, I'll have to change that. sweatdrop I am just saying that information is needed for evolution to take place, but if everything came from evolution that does not make sense. But yeah sorry about the muslim thing.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:06 pm
Imotoku, new scientific advances have been made since the bible was written such as the discovery of evolution. Now, I note that you believe in evolution, but there is no mention of anything like that in the bible. Next I say that as a result, a literal interpritation of the bible can not be logical. God may still exist, but that literal definition is nay impossible.
Okay, back to whatever is actually happening. Jesus was a Jew. He a Jewish carpenter. Judaism has been aroudn a really long time. So that last point in your post is obsolite. Alright, I'm don't being mean to you. Bye.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:36 pm
ChainedFury Why are you reading the book that is called the "Bible" is it's nothing than just a made up book? Prove it. Quote: Why does 1 believe that `He` is there but can't prove it? You believe atoms, correct? Well, guess what, there's about as much prove of atoms out there as there is of God. Quote: When Christians answer the question “Who Is Jesus?” they build their answer on the Bible, & why can't they be without the Bble, is it because they have so much faith that they think that everything in that book is true? Can you give all definitions of the word subject 'way' without a dictionary? Of course christian's use the bible to describe Jesus, it's the most authoritative text on Jesus' life we have Quote: Because the love that Jesus offers comes in the form of a “personal relationship” with Him, many believers have particular definitions about who the Lord is to them, & I want to ask what kind of relationship can you have with someone is they are dead? Jesus isn't dead. Jesus died and them raised from the dead three days later. Quote: "We would be hopeless without God's initiative; he must initiate our relationship with him""-your minds are brainwashed by someone who is not real & is dead that you want to have a relationship with .... You realize that it's impossible or a non-existant entity to have any contact with, much less hold an extensive re-education, with a being that does exist. Quote: My friend who is an Atheist had a friend who was Christian, but once his Christian friend found out that he was an Atheist & wouldn't go to church with him, he turned his back on him. My question is: Why couldn't they be friends? Is it because of religion? If someone is different, you just turn your back on them? Is it because 1 may believe in God & the other 1 won't, is it because of that they can't be friends? It has nothing to do with Christianity. That 'christian' was a a*****e who couldn't see past his own stupidity. Believe me, there's idiots like that in every theological doctrine. Quote: & why do so many people think that he is great rolleyes ?Don't give me the answers such as (he died for our sins) or (he shed blood for us when he died) Well, for one, He was perfect. That's something that [stirke]not many people no one else can truthfully say. Secondly, He was God. Being a diety really does wonders for your 'great'-ness factor.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:20 pm
ChainedFury I'm an atheist, & I want to know why Christianity is important.
Why are you reading the book that is called the "Bible" is it's nothing than just a made up book?
Why does 1 believe that `He` is there but can't prove it?
When Christians answer the question “Who Is Jesus?” they build their answer on the Bible, & why can't they be without the Bble, is it because they have so much faith that they think that everything in that book is true?
Because the love that Jesus offers comes in the form of a “personal relationship” with Him, many believers have particular definitions about who the Lord is to them, & I want to ask what kind of relationship can you have with someone is they are dead?
""We would be hopeless without God's initiative; he must initiate our relationship with him""-your minds are brainwashed by someone who is not real & is dead that you want to have a relationship with .
My friend who is an Atheist had a friend who was Christian, but once his Christian friend found out that he was an Atheist & wouldn't go to church with him, he turned his back on him. My question is: Why couldn't they be friends? Is it because of religion? If someone is different, you just turn your back on them? Is it because 1 may believe in God & the other 1 won't, is it because of that they can't be friends?______________________________ Quotes I found:_________________________________ Quote: The glory of Christianity is to conquer by forgiveness Quote: If you yield to God, you won't give in to sin Quote: If you're living for Christ you may lose some friends, but you won't lose their respect Quote: The Bible contains the vitamins for soul health ___________________________________________ & why do so many people think that he is great rolleyes ?Don't give me the answers such as (he died for our sins) or (he shed blood for us when he died) Okay, first off there is archeological, linguistic, and cultrual evidence that proves that Bible is not a book full of made up stories therefore we base things on the Bible making Christianity a true religion. Second off, u have no idea what Jesus did for me, in fact he saved me from killing myself, he helped me become a better person (everyone knows the story). Third off, if there is evil then there is good, and if there is good and evil then there is a moral law that ppl use to decide wat's good and evil and if there is a moral law then there is a moral law giver(God). So if u acknowledge that there is good and/ or evil then u acknowledge that God exists. Fourth off, most of being an athiest is not wanting God to exist and that affects ur beliefs. Srry if this seems straight forward but I'm in battling a personal battle (i would not have gotten this far w/o Jesus's help) and it's effecting the rest of my life.
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:25 pm
thejesusfreak ChainedFury I'm an atheist, & I want to know why Christianity is important.
Why are you reading the book that is called the "Bible" is it's nothing than just a made up book?
Why does 1 believe that `He` is there but can't prove it?
When Christians answer the question “Who Is Jesus?” they build their answer on the Bible, & why can't they be without the Bble, is it because they have so much faith that they think that everything in that book is true?
Because the love that Jesus offers comes in the form of a “personal relationship” with Him, many believers have particular definitions about who the Lord is to them, & I want to ask what kind of relationship can you have with someone is they are dead?
""We would be hopeless without God's initiative; he must initiate our relationship with him""-your minds are brainwashed by someone who is not real & is dead that you want to have a relationship with .
My friend who is an Atheist had a friend who was Christian, but once his Christian friend found out that he was an Atheist & wouldn't go to church with him, he turned his back on him. My question is: Why couldn't they be friends? Is it because of religion? If someone is different, you just turn your back on them? Is it because 1 may believe in God & the other 1 won't, is it because of that they can't be friends?______________________________ Quotes I found:_________________________________ Quote: The glory of Christianity is to conquer by forgiveness Quote: If you yield to God, you won't give in to sin Quote: If you're living for Christ you may lose some friends, but you won't lose their respect Quote: The Bible contains the vitamins for soul health ___________________________________________ & why do so many people think that he is great rolleyes ?Don't give me the answers such as (he died for our sins) or (he shed blood for us when he died) Okay, first off there is archeological, linguistic, and cultrual evidence that proves that Bible is not a book full of made up stories therefore we base things on the Bible making Christianity a true religion. Second off, u have no idea what Jesus did for me, in fact he saved me from killing myself, he helped me become a better person (everyone knows the story). Third off, if there is evil then there is good, and if there is good and evil then there is a moral law that ppl use to decide wat's good and evil and if there is a moral law then there is a moral law giver(God). So if u acknowledge that there is good and/ or evil then u acknowledge that God exists. Fourth off, most of being an athiest is not wanting God to exist and that affects ur beliefs. Srry if this seems straight forward but I'm in battling a personal battle (i would not have gotten this far w/o Jesus's help) and it's effecting the rest of my life. 1 question .. If I were now to convert myself into being a Christian, how will I be saved? hm.. stare
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:05 pm
ChainedFury I'm an atheist, & I want to know why Christianity is important.
Why are you reading the book that is called the "Bible" is it's nothing than just a made up book? Alright, well first of all if you want to find out more about someone elses religion, I suggest you not come off as insulting by telling them their holy book is made up. We're a friendly guild and we don't need people getting angry at one another. There is a whole lot of scientific evidence around that proves a lot of the thing in the Bible did happen. Quote: Why does 1 believe that `He` is there but can't prove it? It's called faith. Faith defies being able to prove it. In my mind, I can prove it. I see God at work in my life on a daily basis. I just have this gut feeling that there is a God. I know there is. Quote: When Christians answer the question “Who Is Jesus?” they build their answer on the Bible, & why can't they be without the Bble, is it because they have so much faith that they think that everything in that book is true? As I've said, I just have this feeling that God exhists, so even if I wasn't a Christian, I wouldn't be an athiest. Athiesm is the only "religion" if you will, that doesn't sit well with me. I just cannot fathom the idea of there not being a God. I know there is, and that belief cannot be shaken. The reason we build our answers on the Bible is because we believe it to be true. There is evidence Jesus exhisted, so it comes down to whether or not you believe in his divinity. I believe the Bible to be true, and I realize that Jesus did great things for the Glory of God. Quote: Because the love that Jesus offers comes in the form of a “personal relationship” with Him, many believers have particular definitions about who the Lord is to them, & I want to ask what kind of relationship can you have with someone is they are dead? There's this thing, part of the trinity, called the Holy Spirit. It's the Lord's ever living presence in all the world and after Jesus died for us, the Holy Spirit showed up. Or some theologists say it was always there. In any case, God transcends time, so whether or not Jesus died, it's not really important. Christianity, in my mind is about a relationship with God, not Jesus. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one on the same, really so I suppose I just like using the word God better. Anyway, God is omnipotent, so he transcends time and death. So technically, we're not trying to have a relationship with someone who is dead. Quote: ""We would be hopeless without God's initiative; he must initiate our relationship with him""-your minds are brainwashed by someone who is not real & is dead that you want to have a relationship with .This is the faith thing again. I can't prove it, but I know it. I wouldn't say we're brainwashed either, at least I'm not. I question the Bible, God, and my faith all the time. Last I checked, most people who are brainwashed don't do that. Quote: My friend who is an Atheist had a friend who was Christian, but once his Christian friend found out that he was an Atheist & wouldn't go to church with him, he turned his back on him. My question is: Why couldn't they be friends? Is it because of religion? If someone is different, you just turn your back on them? Is it because 1 may believe in God & the other 1 won't, is it because of that they can't be friends? I honestly don't like people who do that. Those are the kinds of Christians who really get under my skin. Jesus spent a whole lot of time hanging out with people who were not Jewish, and even people who society at the time frowned upon. God calls us to accepting of all people, and love them no matter what. It could be because of religion, that the one friend turned his back on the other, but as I said, Christians who do that bug me. I have friends of all religions, and I do not judge on faith, just like many other Christians. ______________________________ Quotes I found:_________________________________ Quote: Quote: The glory of Christianity is to conquer by forgiveness As I said, that's the kind of Christian who I just... don't like. Don't judge the actions of a group based on one close minded person. Quote: Quote: If you yield to God, you won't give in to sin I wouldn't say we "turn people Christian". I like to mention my faith, and then if people ask I tell them more. I don't really know what the point of the quote is either. Just because you have faith in God, it doesn't mean that you won't be tempted. Quote: Quote: If you're living for Christ you may lose some friends, but you won't lose their respect This idea seems pretty lame to me. God calls us to love everyone, relgardless of who they are. Quote: Quote: The Bible contains the vitamins for soul health Again, not a made up book. And it is a good book to read, if you're a Christian. I generally crack open my Bible when something's upsetting me. It helps me feel God's presence. ___________________________________________ Quote: & why do so many people think that he is great rolleyes ?Don't give me the answers such as (he died for our sins) or (he shed blood for us when he died) He is at work in my life on a daily basis and when I look around I have ended up with so much more than others. My county is currently the richest county in the United States, and I'm increadibly blessed to be living here. I see my prayers answered often, and the idea of complete, unconditional love blows my mind. He created us and loves us. Someone who takes the time to do that is obviously quite awesome.
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