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 Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 11:36 am
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 1:58 pm
You know....the US is often critized for being uptight with matters regarding sex. However I do believe it may be one of the loosest nations in the world as far as abortion laws are concerned so that even minors have access to the proceedure without parental permission.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:05 am
man those laws go to an unnecessary exteme about excused why abortion should be legal.
"Should the penalty for lack of knowledge or even for a moment's carelessness be enforced pregnancy and childrearing? Or dangerous illegal abortion? Should we consign a teenager to a life sentence of joblessness, hopelessness, and dependency?"
this statement really ticks me off. first off, when someone is having sex... they know full well what sex produces. my first time i knew immediately, "this could produce a baby" and it freaked me out.... and the guy and i talked about it and made sure that we were on the same lines about keeping the baby, which wasn't even likely to happen. i was 14... and i KNEW sex=babies. i KNEW that i would not be able to have any baby i'd ever have killed. i knew i'd be able to go on with my life no matter what happened.
6 years later, i DID get pregnant, and had the same knowledge of what i was doing now as i did then. i have not been sentenced to a life of.... CRAP like it is made out to be. i'm a part time working college kid, my baby is my biggest hope, and i eventually will not be dependent as i'm working towards a career of sorts.
sorry, my rant. yeah most arguments by pro-choicers contadict at one point. they seem so flawless... then you're like.. "WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?" and all. i am all for parents consent required in that situation. ALL FOR IT. i will talk to my son about it when he is old enough. fortunately he's a boy... so he won't get pregnant. he does have to be aware of any consequences, of sex, pregnancy, and what happens when you don't tell anyone. i hope that my boy will feel comfortable enough that if that situation would arise he'd give me a heads up before anything crazy went down. he's only four months, and i'm already thinking of my grandbaby's safety. whether its in 14 years, or 25 years. its COMING.
i agree entirely about parental notification. there is a certain fear that goes along with telling a parent about stuff like that.... but they are adult enough to .... do it, they're adult enough to go through the consequences of talking to parents. blah.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:10 am
That reminds me of that commercial of the woman talking about smoking while she's in the kitchen by the fridge and she's going on about it, then she looks at her kid and it's a baby, and the message is something like talk to your kids early about the dangers of smoking or something like that.
If a girl is old enough to seek an abortion, then she should be old enough to talk to her parents about it. I'm sorry, but if they want me to believe that abortion is a responsible option and not running away from something but a positive solution, they'd better darn well stop making it look like the run-away option where you are too scared for yourself to let a life live. Not for the women pregnant, I don't think that harshly. Especially younger girls. The people TELLING them that they should do this and treating them like they need to, that is who I am angry at.
9/10 women who have aborted say they woulda kept their baby if they'd been given more support. THat is a scary statistic. I believe it though because I know perfectly well that had I gotten pregnant a year ago, I would have had an abortion and it would have ruined my life. The guy I was dating, the shame I'd have felt from having sex, not to mention the lack of support from my friends who would convince me to abort, and it would have been running away, and I know it. And I know I'm not the only girl in the world who is like that. Well I"m not anymore, but I was at one point. The fact that society has made abortion the, socially acceptable and responsible option that you should take or you're being an idiot, is so infuriating. The fact that one of the reasons Planned Parenthood gives for most women aborting is that a partner or parent wants her to, is infuriating. THe fact that I have had multiple guys press me for sex and say, "If the condom breaks and you get pregnant, we can have an abortion," is infuriating, especially since I"m a virgin and intend to be like that until I find someone who doesn't treat me like a body and treats me like a person. Actually I intend to be like that until I"m married, but I'm pretty sure that I won't find a guy like that until I'm old enough to be married and able to share a life xd
It's just so sad that women are treated like bodies, it's sad that children are killed worldwide each year by the millions, and it's sad that this is the socially acceptable way of life.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:45 am
This makes me mad on a purely legal level. If I needed a triple by-pass surgery the hospital wouldn't perform it before notifying my parents, or if I was in dire straits they would be notifying my parents as they were performing it.
If abortion is a purely medical procedure then it should be treated as such. Under age kids guardian's would have to be notified. Since it's not a procedure done under life threatening circumstances (for the most part) than the parents should have to be notified before the procedure.
And about Kate's last comment I agree whole heartedly. I mean I would never have an abortion unless both myself and the child would die if I didn't. However both of my parents are pro-life (my father isn't even Christian *le gasp*) and so they would support me in a decision to keep the child throughout the pregnancy. My mother and I have even talked about it before.
She's said that she would rather see me put the child up for adoption but she'd be supportive of any choice I made (Not counting abortion as that's not even an option me me. It's never happening.) whether I wanted to keep it or put it up for adoption. To be quite truthful I'm glad she said that because without family support I don't think I'd be able to give my child up for adoption if it came to that.
So knowing and feeling that I believe is, in a slightly different context, the feeling of women who have had abortions. They don't know if their family will support their decision to continue the pregnancy, both choices are difficult only one allows them to pretend as though nothing happened. They don't have to worry about what their family would support because their family never has to know.
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:35 pm
"40% of 14 years olds will become pregnant before the age of 20"
Ok... not only is that figure ridiculous, but that statement also cracks me up completely.
Last time I checked, all 14 year olds are indeed bellow the age of 20.
Therefore, these 40% of 14 year olds who get pregnant, will all have become pregnant before the age of 20.
However, if it means, that 40% of the girls currently 14, will get pregnant in the next 6 years, well, this can have no proof, and therefore null and void.
Based on something I read recently in another thread, "1% of all abortions are due to rape"
Put these two facts together, and that would mean that 1 in 250 girls between 14 and 20 will have an abortion as a result of rape...
Now, that would mean that in my school, there must be 4 people who have had an abortion due to rape...
Now that sort of thing is scary...
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:55 pm
lu-tze "40% of 14 years olds will become pregnant before the age of 20" Ok... not only is that figure ridiculous, but that statement also cracks me up completely. Last time I checked, all 14 year olds are indeed bellow the age of 20. Therefore, these 40% of 14 year olds who get pregnant, will all have become pregnant before the age of 20. However, if it means, that 40% of the girls currently 14, will get pregnant in the next 6 years, well, this can have no proof, and therefore null and void. Based on something I read recently in another thread, "1% of all abortions are due to rape" Put these two facts together, and that would mean that 1 in 250 girls between 14 and 20 will have an abortion as a result of rape... Now, that would mean that in my school, there must be 4 people who have had an abortion due to rape... Now that sort of thing is scary... It actually means that 40% of all women to reach the age of 14 will become pregnant by 20. Meaning, a bunch of people in my life should be pregnant. Or should have gotten pregnant at one point between those ages. I'm willing to bet there are 4 girls in your school who have been/are being/will be raped, though....the chances of becoming pregnant through rape are slim.
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:06 pm
indeed, assuming that say, 9/10 have an abortion after becoming pregnant from rape, and lets say, 1 in 5 become pregnant as a result of rape...
that means that 22 have or will be raped.
Leaving the 4 who both have/will have an abortion AND became/will become pregnant...
Isn't maths fun?
So yes... factoring those in, that's a lot of people...
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:28 pm
Actually, most people who are raped don't abort...I forget what the number is. I just find it interesting.
Personally, if someone rapes me, and I get pregnant because of it, I"m not letting him make a murderer out of me. He's already done enough to me, I'm not letting him win again and I'm not letting him hurt anyone else.
Though I do realize if I ever get pregnant, I would need much, much support from my loved ones because I can think of 10 people off the bat who would be pushing me to get an abortion.
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Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:19 pm
SPeaking as one of the poor sods in the medical profession we have little say in a lot of the crap that goes on. A lot of this comes from politicians. If I had a choice I would call the parents of everyperson that got pregnant. I mean we have to call them if I pick them up on the ambulance. But I am not allowed to release privleged information.
I am ranting sorry I just spent 10 hours on the ambulance and in the ER and another two hours at firetraining. Iam little tired. And what was the statistic that one percent of all abortions are due to rape, that my friends is not that many people and the whole thing about kids gettin pregnant before there 20 well yeah alot of them are married or engaged so those people can kiss my a**. I have a friend who graduated high school last year and she is now five months pregnant so oh no she is having a kid before she is twenty. what kinda bull s**t statistic is that. If 40% of the children between 14 and 16 then I would be impressed. And of those how many children will carry there child to full term. The teenage body at that age is not well suited to carry children. The teenage body is to hormonal.
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:01 am
Cyanna You know....the US is often critized for being uptight with matters regarding sex. However I do believe it may be one of the loosest nations in the world as far as abortion laws are concerned so that even minors have access to the proceedure without parental permission. Supposedly we're put to shame by Europe and their idea of sex. On a completely different note: I sorta agree with lyme in that this is a huge desicion that is a type of medical procedures and costs a good amount of money. Hypothetically, it you're married, the baby was created by his seed, and you made a consensual choice to sex, and what if you actually told him you were exited to have your first child? Obviously most choicers would go "Well it doesn't matter! Her body!" But there is some messed up logic in there. Basically if you're going to demand I have sex with you and then kill my offspring... you're not worth me time.
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:42 pm
When you allow minors to make major medical decisions without parental notification it is not only morally wrong but also dangerous. With any type of medical procedure a certain amount of risk comes with it. No matter how clean or safe and abortion clinic may be there will always be abortions that go wrong, and for the parents not to even be aware of the procedure taking place, could put the abortion doctor in a situation where he would have trouble contacting anyone in case of emergency. I am not condoning abortion but if abortion is going to be legal the parents of the girl getting the abortion should be and need to be informed of whats going on.
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:57 pm
Personally, I think it's ridiculous there's even a law against parental notification for abortion in the first place. You have to have parental consent to get your ears pierced...but not for an invasive surgery? Honestly.
"They'll do it anyway, so let's make it easier for them to do it without consequnces!"
SO. IRRESPONSIBLE.
And hypocritical, if parents happen to tell their kids, "DON'T DO IT!" and then support laws like this.
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:28 pm
TheDiseasedOne SPeaking as one of the poor sods in the medical profession we have little say in a lot of the crap that goes on. A lot of this comes from politicians. If I had a choice I would call the parents of everyperson that got pregnant. I mean we have to call them if I pick them up on the ambulance. But I am not allowed to release privleged information. I am ranting sorry I just spent 10 hours on the ambulance and in the ER and another two hours at firetraining. Iam little tired. And what was the statistic that one percent of all abortions are due to rape, that my friends is not that many people and the whole thing about kids gettin pregnant before there 20 well yeah alot of them are married or engaged so those people can kiss my a**. I have a friend who graduated high school last year and she is now five months pregnant so oh no she is having a kid before she is twenty. what kinda bull s**t statistic is that. If 40% of the children between 14 and 16 then I would be impressed. And of those how many children will carry there child to full term. The teenage body at that age is not well suited to carry children. The teenage body is to hormonal. This interests me. Until I turned 18, my doctors couldn't do ANYTHING without parental permission; prescribe medication, do an operation, give me a freaking tylenol. An abortion is a major medical risk. My question is why do my parents have to consent to me having a tooth removed, but they don't need to consent to me having an abortion? Well, now I can have teeth removed too, I'm 18, but it boggles my mind. I know there's doctor-patient confidentiality that messes with things, but I was always told that minors weren't old enough to fully comprehend the risks and/or unaware of all of their own medical quirks that could complicate things, and that in a situation with a minor, doctor patient confidentiality only extends as far as it's safe to, or they can be sued if something goes wrong and the parents were unaware that the procedure was even being done.
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:28 pm
I just think its sad that there has to be parental notification at all. Just because one lousey supreme court decision, it has limited the people's ability to restrict abortion as they see fit. I'm sure if it were left up to the states, that some would have abortion on demand, but most would have severe restrictions, if they allowed it at all.
What I find is also wrong is that the father has no say in what happens to his child, sure some states require partental notification, but no notification to the father. And even if they did tell him he still wouldn't have a say in what happened to his own child.
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