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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:21 am
Ok so, this is just driving me crazy, will someone explain why the probability amplitude for a double slit scattering experiment is the absolute square of the addition of the two probabilities. How does that work mathematically with complex numbers?
Also I understand this:
/electron at x | electron from s = aφ1 + bφ2 photon at D1 | photon from L /
where x is the final electron detector D1 is the photon detector for the first hole L is the light source s is the source of electron φ1 is the probability amplitude for the electron coming through the first hole and correspondingly φ2 is the same for the second hole a is the amplitude that the photon will be scattered through hole 1 and b is the amplitude that the photon will be scattered through hole 2.
So why do you have to multiply it by itself to get the whole picture of the probability that the electron will scatter a photon into D1 AND end up at x?
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:09 pm
I'm not quite certain what it is exactly that you're asking, but the wavefunction Ψ is complex-valued, so its amplitude is related to its product of it and its conjugate Ψ*. If I understand you correctly, you're wondering why the probability amplitude is the integral of ΨΨ* = |Ψ|² rather than sqrt[ΨΨ*] = |Ψ|. The reason for this that |Ψ|² has a corresponding probability current that satisfies Gauss' integral, whereas |Ψ| does not, i.e., |Ψ|² is conserved. This is not something peculiar to quantum-mechanical probability waves; ordinary optical interference involves waves of the electric field E and magnetic field B and yet the intensity varies as E² and B² instead. As a mathematical analogy, think of complex dot product x·y = x_k* y_k = |x||y|cos θ, and so that Ψ = aφ_1 + bφ_2, a≥0, b≥0, has ΨΨ* = a²|φ_1|² + ab[φ_1*φ_2 + φ_1φ_2*] + b²|φ_2|². The first and last terms are clearly the lone probability densities of first-slit and second-slit events, while the middle term 2ab Re[φ_1*φ_2] can be thought of as a measure of the phase difference between them, which determines constructive or destructive interference.
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:04 pm
hey, sorry I took so long to respond. But I have no idea where you are getting those things from, and it seems so complicated. No, the book didn't talk about integrals it just stated plainly, here I'll get a quote:
"We must first square the amplitudes for all possible different final events and then sum" to get the probability. And I just don't know why. It doesn't say. or maybe I missed it. I dunno.
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:20 pm
Without a bit more context, it's hard to interpret the situation correctly, but it seems to me that your book is talking about Feynman sum-over-histories approach to quantum mechanics. I'm not certain about the level your book is at, but since you've wondered about how this works in complex numbers, I'm going to work with that. I'm simplifying, since I really should be talking about probability densities and integrals, but this should suffice. A lot of this can be made much more precise.
The wavefunction φ is a complex wave whose absolute-square |φ|² = φφ* represents probability, where * is the complex-conjugate operator (u+iv→u-iv). Put this as an axiom for the moment; it has some substantial justification, but it is not simple. Your book most likely refers to |φ| as the amplitude of the wavefunction, so that the probability is its square (I've more often seen amplitude defined as a complex number in this case, but your book probably simplifies matters for pedagogical reasons). Just like ordinary waves, they combine according to the principle of superposition, i.e., Ψ = φ_1+φ_2. Using a bit of algebra, you can see that the probability density of the result is |Ψ|² = ΨΨ* = [φ_1+φ_2][φ_1*+φ_2*] = φ_1φ_1* + [φ_1φ_2*+φ_2φ_1*] + φ_2φ_2* = |φ_1|² + [...] + |φ_2|², i.e., the combined probability is the sum of the squares of the amplitudes plus some middle term. One of Feynman's rules is analogous to saying that the contribution of this term must be zero for distinguishable histories, i.e., they're in some sense orthogonal to each other, which is why I brought up the complex dot product as an analogy. And that's essentially what your book is saying--the combined probability is the sum of the squares of the amplitudes.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:31 pm
it's the feynman lectures in physics, vol. 3, chapter 3, section 3-3 (gee that's a lot of three's) I'm digesting the last paragraph before I move on to section 3-4: Identical Particles.
you see it was the justification for the axiom which wasn't so clear, probably because he doesn't provide any yet, as you said for pedagogical reasons. your explaination makes sense, I shall write it down.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:02 pm
Sorry, I don't have a copy on me, but Feynman's rules are rather axiomatic in the sense that it takes a quite bit of work to show that they give equivalent results (on the other hand, they're in many cases simpler to work with). As per your original scenario, if there is no detector on either slit (no D1), then the particle going through either slit is indistinguishable from it going through the other, so the wavefunctions superpose--add then take absolute-square to get the probability of detection by a detector after both slits (x). If D1 is present, then there will be decoherence (under Copenhagen interpretation, wavefunction collapse), so that the system will be almost classical--probability of detection (by x) will be the direct sum of the probabilities of the particles going through each slit individually and winding up at x, i.e., sum of the absolute-squares. In Feynman's terms, the presence of D1 makes the alternative histories of the particles distinguishable.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:42 pm
VorpalNeko Sorry, I don't have a copy on me, but Feynman's rules are rather axiomatic in the sense that it takes a quite bit of work to show that they give equivalent results (on the other hand, they're in many cases simpler to work with). As per your original scenario, if there is no detector on either slit (no D1), then the particle going through either slit is indistinguishable from it going through the other, so the wavefunctions superpose--add then take absolute-square to get the probability of detection by a detector after both slits (x). If D1 is present, then there will be decoherence (under Copenhagen interpretation, wavefunction collapse), so that the system will be almost classical--probability of detection (by x) will be the direct sum of the probabilities of the particles going through each slit individually and winding up at x, i.e., sum of the absolute-squares. In Feynman's terms, the presence of D1 makes the alternative histories of the particles distinguishable. I JUST GOT THAT. I understand the whole waveform collapse, but I was looking at this crystal scattering chapter and it would not go through. OH man, I just had an epiphany and feel like I have no one to share it with. He was talking about the scattering of neutrons from nuclei of a crystal. And he said that if there is a spin flip and by the pure existance of a spin flip the possibility that we detect it then the probability is the sum of the absolute square of the amplitudes of the scattering from EACH nuclei, meaning that there is no phase and no interference, therefore the probability as a function of angle is a smooth curve. But if there is no spin flip and all nutrons passing through are of spin up and all nuclei in the atom are of spin down through the whole thing then we cannot distinguish the final states which means that the probability of the scattering will be the aboslute square of the sum of the amplitude for each nuclei. So that mathematically, you'd have to sum first then take the absolute square, which would mean that there would be phase shifts and there would be an interference patern. That is my summary, THIS IS MONUMENTAL. I actually understood that >.< I am sorry I didn't give more detailed background, given your explaination of having to take the absolute square of the amplitude to get the probability I had some trouble figuring out what he was trying to say with that whole section. Which is coincidentally what you've just said. >.<
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:54 pm
Ah. Given your OP, I thought your question was more directed toward the mathematics and complex numbers side of the issue, rather than concpetual, so I directed my initial posts to that instead. In any case, I'm glad that everything worked out.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:41 pm
no that aside, I didn't ask about that, I was just doing the section, the initial question stemmed from before. but yeah it worked out biggrin
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