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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:10 pm
Mmm. It had to happen sometime. Why not today?
Seattle, being the liberal/democratic/libertarian hotspot that it is, is in all respects, quite a political place. I'm downtown frequently and it seems that almost everytime I'm there, I am barraged by literally a dozen young, simple-minded people trying to force their political beliefs upon me.
This had me wondering. Washington is considered a democratic state, but truly, are my peers liberals? I have to find out.
So... what political faction do you fall under? That is, if you even know. Also, if I could be so bold, please include your age? Regardless of how little you actually believe this affects things, in all actuality it really does.
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:14 pm
I don't really fit into any of the parties I know of too well, but I do tend to lean a little more to the liberal side of things.
And I'm 25 and have voted in almost every election since I turned 18.
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:21 pm
Uh, what gives you the right to call them simple-minded? You have no information to base this on. They believe in something and are willing to fight for it. That's simple. But it's not simple-minded. Forcing their beliefs on you would be tying you to a chair and threatening you until you give in. Don't be so dramatic, their only trying to further a cause they see as worthy.
I'm 17 and I am in most respects a democrat. Until my voice actually counts for something, though, I'm not going to bother declaring a party. I will vote as soon as I can and as often as I can.
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:29 pm
Ruby Doe Uh, what gives you the right to call them simple-minded? You have no information to base this on. They believe in something and are willing to fight for it. That's simple. But it's not simple-minded. Forcing their beliefs on you would be tying you to a chair and threatening you until you give in. Don't be so dramatic, their only trying to further a cause they see as worthy. I'm 17 and I am in most respects a democrat. Until my voice actually counts for something, though, I'm not going to bother declaring a party. I will vote as soon as I can and as often as I can. What was this, Ruby? A pre-emptive strike? You attacked me when I had done nothing wrong. If you can't talk politics while keeping your cool, staying mature, and being open minded, then don't bother talking politics at all. I don't want any beef with you. It was a simple question that deserved a simple answer. I don't want to fight. Thanks for jumping the gun. You're the one being dramatic, though. Tie me to a chair and threaten me? Wtf? In a year, you'll be an adult. Start demonstrating that. GoatSlayrr I don't really fit into any of the parties I know of too well, but I do tend to lean a little more to the liberal side of things. And I'm 25 and have voted in almost every election since I turned 18. Kudos Goats! Way to go! ^^; (I have a great respect for those who take advantage of their right to vote.)
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:38 am
okay, kiddies, let's play fair....
anyway, im only 16 but im most likely going to become a Republican. here are some reasons why:
1. I'm pro-life 2. I'm against homosexuality (the concept, I don't mind people, don't flame me). 3. I think the war in Iraq had a good result, in that we put a tyrant out of power. 4. I'm not impressed with what few Democratic candidates I have seen. I'm not really sure of what Clinton did while in office, but I don't respect the man AT ALL. He cheated on his wife, then lied to the country about it, in court of all places.
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:41 pm
Hmm, I'm not really happy with either of the options this time around. The war in Iraq isn't quite over yet; Saddam has been revoved, yes, but Iraq isn't ready to restart its motor. We are dealing with another unforseen factor in the Middle East that may pose an much bigger threat to us than Mr. Hussein. Bush has his hands full of more problems than I believe he can handle. Then again, I don't think Kerry is the right kind of person to resolve what issues we are dealing with. I guess to me the government isn't really progressing. If anything, we are falling behind. At its current rate of decline, the national debt is supposed to fall below $500 billion in the next ten years or so. It's going to take a long time to develop a surplus with a number like that. We need another FDR...
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:25 pm
If I had to pick, I'd be a democrat. But I'm not into politics.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:32 am
Brad Meine What was this, Ruby? A pre-emptive strike? You attacked me when I had done nothing wrong. If you can't talk politics while keeping your cool, staying mature, and being open minded, then don't bother talking politics at all. I don't want any beef with you. It was a simple question that deserved a simple answer. I don't want to fight. Thanks for jumping the gun. You're the one being dramatic, though. Tie me to a chair and threaten me? Wtf? In a year, you'll be an adult. Start demonstrating that. GoatSlayrr I don't really fit into any of the parties I know of too well, but I do tend to lean a little more to the liberal side of things. And I'm 25 and have voted in almost every election since I turned 18. Kudos Goats! Way to go! ^^; (I have a great respect for those who take advantage of their right to vote.) My reply based off of exactly what you said. I didn't like you calling people you know nothing about simple-minded, I called you on it. Sweeping generalizations don't do well in a debate, basically.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:27 am
I'm someone who LOVES politics, but I need way more information before I make a decision. I'm pretty liberal, but I don't like to constrain myself by saying I'm into one party or the other. I'll vote for a candidate based on what they believe and their past history, not which party they are (it seems like a pretty simple, obvious thing but I was surprised at how many people are party biased).
I'm 17, turn 18 in October, so I already registered to vote and plan on doing just that come November.
Speaking of, does anyone have informative websites about politics?
Or books, I love reading.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:18 pm
Emoticon I'm someone who LOVES politics, but I need way more information before I make a decision. I'm pretty liberal, but I don't like to constrain myself by saying I'm into one party or the other. I'll vote for a candidate based on what they believe and their past history, not which party they are (it seems like a pretty simple, obvious thing but I was surprised at how many people are party biased). I'm 17, turn 18 in October, so I already registered to vote and plan on doing just that come November. Speaking of, does anyone have informative websites about politics? Or books, I love reading. Well, I figure that I'm going to get flamed anyway for my political views but in all honesty, I'm fairly conservative. I draw a lot of my ideas from my own experiences so my views are just that, my views. I had to do an extended amount of research in order to find exactly which political party that I fall under. In the end the most satisfactory match seemed to come with the idea of meritocratic fascism. Now, before everyone screams "Fascist!" and "Jew-killer!" let me go into a little more detail. I happen to strongly believe that a nation led by a single, powerful individual given his/her position based on merit alone would and should be the most efficient government to ever grace the earth. I am strongly anti-racist and I'm out to disprove the idea that all fascists are indeed racists. This notion that fascism walks hand in hand with racism is because many confuse fascism with national socialism. The key factor in National Socialism is race. The race stands above all things as the most important deciding factor in every decision. This is just not the case with fascism. Fascism's fundamental principles, as a utopian idea, put the government at the top of the ladder; a government designed and structured to best suit the people. If at this point you have grown a little more interested in my ideas - many of them are summed up on the website http://www.meritocraticparty.orgGo there and take a peek. Lastly, I'll quote a piece from this website soas all can get a better idea without having to go to the page, if they so choose: meritocraticparty.org Meritocracy is a totalitarian doctrine. It is based on several doctrines, taking the best of each and abandoning the rest. Our focus is the present and the future. Nothing in the past compares to what we seek to accomplish. What we seek is simple: the best government possible, officials appointed by merit rather than popularity, morality in our society, and the union of the world into one nation. Accomplishing these things will not be quick or easy. Politically Meritocratic rule will probably begin as a dictatorship and progress to a council system, in which several top officials will work together to determine the best solution to a problem and negate any one “loose cannon”: ministers from the various governmental departments, such as education, health, defense, and industry, and an odd number to prevent any form of tie. It will be the responsibility and goal of the dictator to relinquish power to a grand council on or prior to his death, preferably as soon the system could cycle far enough for suitable council members to be appointed. The council will most likely have an advisory role for the life of the dictator, and then take power upon his or her death. A Meritocratic governmental system will be broken down into levels of city, county, state, and national, and each level will be given an examination, each of which a concentrically lower percentage will pass as the level got higher and higher. Exams will be graded by a separate, corporate organization. Anyone will be able to take the city exam. Pass, and you're eligible for a job at that level, to be picked out of the other passers by merit for available positions. You also become eligible for the next level's exam. Fail, and you can take it again next year. This way, rather than popular politicians who can't do the job or are only interested in getting reelected, you get top-notch civil servants who can do the best job possible for the State. Exams will use strict security measures to ensure that the scoring was fair, such as machine grading and numbers substituted for names, so that the person grading the exams will never know who’s paper they were grading. The organization doing the grading will be corporate, filled with hired workers rather than appointed officials, with nothing whatsoever to gain from helping cheaters. Tests will also be graded by a minimum of three different people, with a fourth grading it in the event of a discrepancy. The tests will be made by this organization, but personally approved by the council/dictator, depending on which stage of development the government was currently at. The test itself will be intensive, from common sense everyone should have but some lack, to comparison of political ideologies and essays on real life situations. It could be expected to take anywhere from 2 to 3 full days to complete, during which applicants will be completely isolated from society inside of the testing compound. Even after passing the test, applicants will not be guaranteed a job, but will simply be eligible for the interview, to then be appointed by merit to whatever positions were open. After being appointed, the traditional promotion/demotion system will work its toll until they were where they needed to be. Theoretically, a person could get a national job with no experience whatsoever, but this is highly unlikely, as they will still have to pass the interview and will have nothing to show the interviewer. However, even if they do get the job, they will still be bottom rung even at the national level, and can be demoted to a previous level if they can't do the job, though passing the test would still be credited to them. The military and corporations owned by the government will be largely unaffected by the meritocratic structure, and will progress largely as they do now. Organizing the nation will not simply stop at politics under a Meritocratic State. The Meritocrat envisions a world in which every council, every industry controlled by the government is run by an expert in that or an appropriate field. Doctors running medical boards, teachers running the Department of Education, economists running budget councils, and soldiers running national defense. No more high paid, underhanded politicians running the world and everything in it. Each council, each department will be run by an expert in that field, who gained the office through years of work in that field. They will, of course, be subject to the reigning government for major decisions, but for the most part could run things themselves. As Mussolini put it, the “State organizes the nation but, leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding factor in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone.” On Freedom, the French philosopher Renan said "Reason and science are products of humanity, but to expect reason as a direct product of the people and a direct result of their action is to deceive oneself by a chimera. It is not necessary for the existence of reason that everybody should understand it." The average member of society under our present democratic constraints neither realizes nor wants what is best for the whole, but only what suits them best. This must stop. The absurd notion of equality must end. Men are not created equal. Men do not have the right to luxury but only to life and liberty so long as the state should will it and they uphold their side of the great "social contract" that is law. All other "rights" are in point of fact privileges granted by the state to the individual for which he should be grateful. Thus it is the State which both grants and removes freedom. The sufficient margin is that which must be maintained for cooperation, but also rewards given by State for behavior, service, and merit. Men do not have the right to fast cars and junk food, but if it keeps them compliant and does no harm to the State, why not allow it? There is no reason why non-harmful, non-decadent freedoms should be reserved, nor will they be under the Meritocratic State. Meritocrats do not care what religion, race or gender a citizen is, so long as he is moral and obedient to the State. The Meritocratic State does not attempt to create its own God or replace or stamp out any religion not directly contrary to the State. Likewise racism and sexism are also hated and outlawed by the Meritocratic State. However "backward" lifestyles such as survivalism or tribalism, in which the individual does little good or actual harm to the State are viewed as decadent, contrary to nature or the State, and to be crushed as soon as possible. Examples of this include the American Indians insisting on Nations of their own, and reparations to African Americans for events in which they were not themselves involved. All such forms of cultural decadence must be thoroughly eliminated. Regarding education, there are far too many unskilled laborers today. This is because they either can't or don't want to get a decent education. Under the ideal educational system, everyone will have a post-high school education and at least some skill. Higher education will be both free and mandatory, just like education through 9th grade is now in the United States. All high school seniors will be given a test. If they pass with a certain score, 4 years of college in a major of their choice is free. Should they not make it, but can still pay for college and be accepted, let them do that. If they fail and can't pay or be accepted, send them to a State funded two year trade school. Within a generation, every citizen will have some skill, however basic, and the standard of living will be greatly improved. Economically, Meritocracy favors a policy of social corporatism. Under this system, the government buys and nationalizes private businesses and property at cost, including all stock, renovates them, and operates them, especially key industries like transportation and manufacturing, then uses the proceeds from these to alleviate taxes and fund State projects like free education and health care. This will only occur with key industries and large businesses, not smaller private ones. Small businesses are best left in private hands. The structure of the businesses will remain largely the same, only the President of the company will be appointed, the government will be the owner, and the profits or losses will be absorbed by the treasury. The pay is the same or better for the workers, and the consumer faces numerous innovations and lower prices. Rather than businesses oriented toward profit, you get businesses oriented toward innovation and progress. New products and technology could be turned out at a near geometric rate. The environment will be a major factor in meritocratic action and law, such as the mandating of clean energy and replanting of clear-cut areas. The goal of Meritocracy is simple and yet quite difficult. Simply spoken, but hard to fully realize. Yet it is in striving for impossibility that the near-impossible is attained, and so we must strive for what we may never reach. Our goal is that "highest expression of highest expression of human power which is Empire" We seek, quite simply, to united the world under one doctrine, one government, one nation. We seek to bring clean food and drinkable water to all the peoples of the earth. Education to every child, medicine to every sickly widow, and jobs to every homeless man. All of this we may never achieve, but how can we not try? Evil wins when good men do nothing, and there is a great deal of evil at work in the world. Thoughts? Ideas?
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:31 pm
Im a Young Democrat... heh.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:11 pm
Meritocracy sounds so futuristic and high tech. It's very wrell thought out and would probably work if everyone agreed to it.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:13 pm
Frankly, I don't give a damn about politics.
My parents are republican, though.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:11 pm
I think we should live in a world like Dark City...
...just kidding. But the whole mind-trick thing would be fun.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:01 pm
I really don't know what party I fall under. eek My parents say I'm a republican, I don't even know what a republican is. I say Vote for Nattor! because we hate everyone! xd
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