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 Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:19 am
The thread there: http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=4781769&page=1The article itself: http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_209213550.htmlFor anyone too lazy to read either link, there was a woman trying to get an abortion in a clinic in Florida at 22 weeks, who gave birth in the clinic. The newborn was found dead, in a biohazard bag, and there is an investigation to see if it was alive at birth, and the clinic has been closed until what happened is known. Ok, I saw this and my first thought was "Wait, they give out abortions at 22 weeks in Florida? What the hell?" And then, "What the ******** is wrong with Flordia?" Of course, the Pro-Lifers are always upset at any abortion happening. But I really have to agree with them about this one. 22 weeks is too late to abort for non-medical reasons. Anytime after 5 months is, really. Also, it is likely that the pregnancy was more than 22 weeks along, as the dead newborn was said to weigh 2 to 3 pounds (that is a big difference, don't you think) and a 22 week fetus weighs about 1 pound. But really, if abortion clinics are going to do stupid s**t (which they might not of, other than agreeing(?) to do an abortion on a 22-week pregnant woman) how can we convince the Pro-Lifers that most abortion clinics are better than this?
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:39 am
It's hard to say, since I believe it should be a woman's choice reguardless of when the timing is, since some are unable to afford an abortion until the second trimester.
However, just because one clinic had shady activity surrounding their abortion process and disposal proceedures, doesn't mean that all the clinics deal with things the same.
At planned parenthood, should something go wrong, a nurse is always on call (even when the clinic is closed) in order to deal with any questions or medical concerns a woman may have after her procedure.
One shady abortion clinic =/= all abortion clinics.
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:44 am
October Cross It's hard to say, since I believe it should be a woman's choice reguardless of when the timing is, since some are unable to afford an abortion until the second trimester. However, just because one clinic had shady activity surrounding their abortion process and disposal proceedures, doesn't mean that all the clinics deal with things the same. At planned parenthood, should something go wrong, a nurse is always on call (even when the clinic is closed) in order to deal with any questions or medical concerns a woman may have after her procedure. One shady abortion clinic =/= all abortion clinics. I don't think that a viable fetus should be aborted, but that it should be free to induce delivery and try to find someone to adopt the thing. I do know that one bad abortion clinic does not represent all clinics. It just disgusts me that there are bad clinics out there. It also makes it harder to explain that most abortion clinics are not shady places.
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:37 am
Just curious, but I was wondering if this is from a reliable source.
After all, whenever I see anything around pro-lifers, I assume that there is taint going on.
Waitaminute, isn't Florida Jeb Bush's state?
...Hmm....
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:25 pm
Should say: "Every child has a right to be. In your uterus without your consent."
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:27 pm
Oni-Angel Just curious, but I was wondering if this is from a reliable source. After all, whenever I see anything around pro-lifers, I assume that there is taint going on. Waitaminute, isn't Florida Jeb Bush's state? ...Hmm.... I was asking myself that too. Humm.
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:56 pm
LadyInWhite Oni-Angel Just curious, but I was wondering if this is from a reliable source. After all, whenever I see anything around pro-lifers, I assume that there is taint going on. Waitaminute, isn't Florida Jeb Bush's state? ...Hmm.... I was asking myself that too. Humm. If you check out the link, it's from CBS. I would assume that they are as reliable as any other station. And really, this is a few hundred times more reliable than just about any other Pro-Lifer source.
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:50 pm
Aha! Choicers, time to earn your keep!
Was it really wrong for the abortion to be performed after 22 weeks? For those of you who say that you're okay with an abortion throughout the pregnancy (such as myself), does this example sicken you?
If so, it might be time to reconsider your views, kiddies.
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:12 am
PhaedraMcSpiffy Should say: "Every child has a right to be. In your uterus without your consent." I'm not sure why you posted this here. It really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. While I would like to get our post count up, posting offtopic complaints of random Pro-Life signatures is not the best way to go about this.
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:29 am
Son of Axeman Aha! Choicers, time to earn your keep!
Was it really wrong for the abortion to be performed after 22 weeks? For those of you who say that you're okay with an abortion throughout the pregnancy (such as myself), does this example sicken you?
If so, it might be time to reconsider your views, kiddies.
I agree however that at all times, she still had the right to request the abortion, whether she was informed of the risks or not.
in addition to hold a veiw does not demand extreme devotion to it. Pro choice means I'm pro that persons choice on having a child or no, which means that in a way I'm pro life and pro abortion. She chose to not have the baby, its sad she still had it, its sadder still that the child had to die after being born.
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:58 am
Apparently the cut off limit for legal abortion in Florida is 24 weeks (what? that is quite late I think). But this woman might have been at or even over the this limit, as her baby weighed far more than than a 22 week fetus usually does (2 to 3 times more).
And also, many clinic worker actually helped authorities track down the dead baby. At this moment, there is no word on what exactly happened. It is possible that this baby died from being premature.
Florida has another clinic that has had tons of problems. Obviously something needs to be done.
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:23 am
Son of Axeman Aha! Choicers, time to earn your keep!
Was it really wrong for the abortion to be performed after 22 weeks? For those of you who say that you're okay with an abortion throughout the pregnancy (such as myself), does this example sicken you?
If so, it might be time to reconsider your views, kiddies.
Also, someone in that thread said if it's born alive they are obligated to save it. That's a crock. If it's clear it'll die they don't bother saving it. It's the same with older people.
But this is an important lesson - This is why we need safe legal abortion avaliable for ALL WOMEN. If the clinics have shady passes, it means they aren't safe, aren't regulated and are probably hurting women more than they are helping. And yes, just because this happened, doess't mean all abortion clinics are bad.
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:12 am
At some point, you have to consider viability. The fetus isn't viable until about 24 weeks.
Yes, it's bad, but it's only shy of the 'five months' suggested by others, and if she gave birth to it, it either had to be DOA to begin with or there was something else wrong with her.
I don't see this as necessarily 'wrong' until more information arrives. Giving birth is NOT a valid abortion procedure, leading me to believe either she stressed out and plotzed or this was induced for whatever reason.
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:05 am
Personally, I'm somewhat against having an abortion in the third trimester, but I'm politically pro-choice throughout the pregnancy. Besides, if a fetus is born at 22 weeks, isn't that a little too early? That's still in the second trimester of the pregnancy, after all. Perhaps the baby died after birth simply because it was premature. Of course, that could also mean that the clinic induced labor early, so it would be born premature and die. Kinda like that article in Seventeen magazine last year. Anyone read it? A mother induced her daughter's labor early so the baby would die. Which was also like in this month's issue when a mother forced her daughter to have an abortion. However, these articles aren't pro-life like some thing, but anti-choice because the girls in both articles wanted to keep their babies. I'm getting really off-topic.
Now, if the woman gave birth and the baby was killed, that would sicken me because it is murder. But abortion isn't murder, and neither is not desperately trying to save a baby born in the second trimester and will probably die anyway.
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:03 am
Son of Axeman Aha! Choicers, time to earn your keep!
Was it really wrong for the abortion to be performed after 22 weeks? For those of you who say that you're okay with an abortion throughout the pregnancy (such as myself), does this example sicken you?
If so, it might be time to reconsider your views, kiddies. Well, like I previously said, I believe that a woman should have choice through-out the pregnancy. The example sickens me, however, because from what I took of it, if the fetus had been alive upon delivery, their disposal method was incorrect and therefore makes OTHER abortion clinics look bad. The incident would just fuel the anti-choice fire of "LOOK HOW HORRIBLE ALL ABORTION CLINICS ARE! THEY ARE MURDERING BAAAABIIIIEEEES!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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