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Whats better for a simpler language?
  Mostly syntax-oriented. (English)
  Mostly particle-oriented. (Japanese)
  Leave it to the verbs.
  Have a mix of syntax and particles.
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Xeigrich
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:28 pm


***UNDER HEAVY CONSTRUCTION***



Thread Table of Contents
1. Introduction and Updates Log
2. Alphabet and Romanization
3. Phonetics and Speech
4. Sample Vocab and Morphology
5. Grammar/Syntax
6. Verbs and Chron. Conjugation
7. Extended Vocab (COMING SOON)
8. Culture and Background (COMING SOON)
9. Other Notes/Misc/To Do



1~~~INTRODUCTION


Danga is artificially descended from Anzer Pex. Think of Anzer Pex as Classical Latin, and Danga as French. Only, there's more of a Germanic flair to it all, if you ask me.

~Name~
There's no meaning to the name yet, but I'm NOT changing it. Romanized, the name should actually be deqgeh, but Danga is far easier for English speakers to read and remember. Note it's pronounced "dang-guh," and not "dang-uh" or "dong-ah."

~Inspiration~
Danga used to be my first attempt at a conlang, but it was scrapped in favor of Anzer Pex, which was better from the start. Now, Danga, is going to be my second attempt at a REAL conlang (with Anzer Pex as my first REAL conlang). I hope to put some decent effort into this.

~Philosophy~
Danga was originally meant to be super-simple, always regular, and very simple. Screw all that! This new Danga will be complex, complicated, confusing, and awkward looking.... Intentionally. I'm gonna have fun with this one in all the ways opposite of how Anzer Pex is a serious conlang.

~Sources~
Danga will take most of its vocab from Anzer Pex, but some of it will also come from other, currently nonexistent conlangs of mine. Natlang sources will be scarce, but I'm guessing French, German, and English primarily.

~Structure and Outlook~
Since Danga will be wild and fun, I should be able to get things done without too much stress over what's perfect and what still needs work.

Keep in mind, folks, if I decide to give up on the simplicity and ease in favor of complexity and greater depth, I'll probably merge what I've got here into my other conlang. That conlang is supposed to be deep, complicated, and somewhat difficult to allow for uninhibited expression. Yes, Danga is supposed to be flexible enough to allow a great deal of expression and accurate translation, but I don't want simplicity to get in the way of having fun while making a language. BAH HUMBUG to that! Danga is now all about style and fun! (But that doesn't mean it won't be speakable!)

~UPDATES~
Hold on to your lugnuts, it's tiiiiime for an overhaul! (If you get the quote without Googling it, well, props to you I guess~ I loved that movie when I was a kid sweatdrop )



***UNDER HEAVY CONSTRUCTION***

PARDON THE FRICKING DUST OKAY?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:30 pm


2~~~ALPHABET AND ROMANIZATION


I haven't made a conscript for Danga yet. I will probably take the old conscript and make something newer and better out of it.

Until then, all the important information will be in Section 3 - Phonetics and Speech. So far, there's mostly pronunciation and morphology information. I might have to reorganize my section names...

Xeigrich
Vice Captain


Xeigrich
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:31 pm


3~~~PHONETICS AND SPEECH


You know that one language called ENGLISH? You know how the spelling is all weird, and most of the native speakers have lazy pronunciation habits? Oh, yeah, Danga's kinda like that, but on purpose. xd

NOTE: This isn't complete yet. I have almost all of it done, but there are still a few things I'd like to add or change. I want C, Z, H and J to have more purposes. I want more awkward looking spellings. Nothing too crazy, but the core is indeed present.


-- THE SOUNDS (AND THEIR BASIC ROMANIZED EQUIVALENTS) --

----Vowels
i = ai (Diphthong, rhymes with "eye")
a = ah (as in "ah ha!")
o = oh (rounding, like in English "oh!")
u = ugh (a kind of "oof" noise as in "could")
e = ey (Diphthong, rhymes with "hey")
w = oo (strong) (As in "who")
y = ee (strong) (As in "we")
---Consonants, Fricative
s = s
x = z
f = f
v = v
sz = sh
xz = zh
---Consonants, Plosive
p = p
b = b
t = t
d = d
k = k
g = g
---Consonants, Approximant
l = l
r = r
---Consonants, Nasal
n = n
m = m
q = ng
---Consonants, Other
c = *Special Function: Strong K - Replaces Weak K
z = *Special Function: Fricative Consonant Change
h = *Special Function: Vowel Change; Strong Aspiration
j = *Special Function: Plosive Consonant Change

For Loanwords and some Anzer Pex descenders retaining original sounds
tsz = ch
dxz = j
cs = ks (for X)

ei = ee
ow = ouh
ea = eh

i*h = ih
a*h = ae
e*h = uh
inn = ihn (in)
ann = aen (an)
enn = uhn (un)

ich = ick
ach = ack
eik = eek


-- MORPHOLOGICAL RULES / PRONUNCIATION CHANGES --

~Certain vowels followed by H will change their sound IF at the end of a word.
....Affected Letters: i, a, e
....Ex: de (day) -> deh (duh)

~Doubled nasal consonant changes the sound of the preceding vowel.
....Affected Letters: n, m, q
....Ex: fen (feign) -> fenn (fun)

~Single nasal consonant followed by an H allows strong aspiration without causing a vowel change.
....Affected Letters: n, m, q
....Ex: heqr(hanger) -> heqhr(hang her)

~Doubled nasal consonant followed by an H allows strong aspiration while retaining the vowel change.
....Affected Letters: n, m, q
....Ex: heqqr (hung-er) -> heqqhr (hung her)

~Non-nasal consonant followed by H changes the sound of preceding vowel.
....Affected Letters: p b t d k g
....NOTE: lik -> lich
....Ex: lid (lied) -> lidh (lid)

~Doubled non-nasal consonant causes aspiration without vowel change and
allows weak aspiration.
....Affected Letters: p b t d k g s z f v
....NOTE: k -> c (when doubled or H is involved)
....Ex: pabak (pahbock) -> pabbak (pahb hock)
....Ex: bakal (bah-call) -> baccal (bock hall)

~Doubled non-nasal consonant followed by an H retains the vowel change normally caused by the H and allows strong aspiration.
....Affected Letters: p b t d k g s z f v
....NOTE: k -> c (when doubled or H is involved)
....Ex: pabhak (paebock) -> pabbhak (paeb hock)
....Ex: bachak (backock) -> bacchak (back hock)

~S or X consonants followed by Z change the sound of the consonant. If there is a vowel change, it follows the SZ combination.
....Affected Letters: s x
....Ex: is (ice) -> isz (aish) (Without vowel change)
....Ex: ash (a**) -> aszh (ash) (With vowel change)


-- SOME EXAMPLES OF SPELLING AND PRONUNCIATION --

NOTE: Not all of these are pronounced *exactly* like the English words (such as "full") but are close enough.
FORMAT: danga word (English word)

fech (********) facht (fact) salidh (solid) diphr (dipper) dipr (diaper) seik (seek)
sodeh (soda) izh (is) deiliszhesh (delicious) earikh (Eric)
kwich (quick) fasht (fast) slow (slow) slop (slope) fenn (fun) ful (full)
henngr/heqqgr (hunger) henngrei/heqqgrei (hungry) heqqgerhei (hungary?)
pik (pike) pich (pick) pak (pock) pach (pack) pek (pake?) pech (puck)
annxrpeacs (AnzerPex)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:32 pm


4~~~SAMPLE VOCAB AND MORPHOLOGY


~Spelling Patterns~
For the most part, any letters may be placed side-by-side with pronunciation in mind. Once I get the new alphabet up and running, it will be clear which letters are better juxtaposed based on how they are organized. Generally, letters that stretch (continue smoothly) and keep the mouth open (think L, R, S, zh...) should not be be side-by-side at the start of a word, but there's no rule against it.

~Nouns~
All nouns must end with a consonant or the letter A. A noun may start with any letter and may have any legal pattern of letters within it.

~Verbs~
All verbs must end with O, E or U depending upon tense. Verb stems must end with a consonant. A verb may start with any letter and may have any legal pattern of letters within it, but verb endings should be kept in mind.

~Adjectives~
All adjectives must end with OR. An adjective may start with any letter and may have any legal pattern of letters within it.

~Adverbs~
All adverbs must end with IR. An adverb may start with any letter and may have any legal pattern of letters within it.

~Sample Vocabulary~
buy (v) - BARGO
change (v) - $ATO
evil (n) - KA$TA
know (v) - INzhERPO
knowledge(n) - INzhERP
school (n) - INzhERPIGAN
sell (v) - KRAMO
want (v) - KRAVO
work (v) - GREfENO

More later!

Xeigrich
Vice Captain


Xeigrich
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:33 pm


5~~~GRAMMAR/SYNTAX


As with the verb system, I have not yet settled on a definite grammar and syntax.

I plan to stick with SVO, simply because I like it that way. Although I'm pretty sure most real languages are SOV or some other variant besides SVO, which may end up with this conlang not being THAT easy to learn, I probably wont change this. I might, though, if it gets in the way.

You may create a simple, vague sentence with just one verb and nothing else, but this is very minimal and some things must be assumed.
Example: INzhERPO.
--This will mean anything from "I know" to "Someone knows" to "It is known" (passive voice, I believe)

To be more clear, add a subject before any verb.
Example: DIA INzhERPO.
--This will mean "I know" and nothing else.

Let's make a full SVO sentence.
Example: DIA INzhERPO CIA.
--This will mean "I know you"

Turn it around... "CIA INzhERPO DIA" means "You know me"

There are no pronoun declensions (is that the right word?) to make obvious a pronouns grammatical use (ie subject, object, etc). So basically, if the noun comes before the verb, it's the subject; if it comes after the verb, it's the object.

The syntax does not change when making a simple question or exclamation. There is appropriate punctuation for this, and I'm considering terminal particles (a la Japanese).

NOTE: I have a second set of pronouns all worked out just in case this method is ineffective. It's got some declensions and all sorts of things.

More later!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:33 pm


6~~~VERBS AND CHRONOLOGICAL CONJUGATION


The stem of any verbs must end with a consonant. In Danga, verbs indicate action, tense, time, and duration only. There is absolutely no implication for subject, object, number, etc. Also, negative verbs only come in four basic tenses; you can force-negate a positive verb for a somewhat different meaning, though.

If a verb is given without a subject, anonymity or uncertainty of the subject is assumed (to simplify, think of it as saying "one" as the subject in English).

All verb endings begin with, contain, and end with a single vowel sound indicating tense.

O for Present.
E for Past.
U for Present.
I for Temporal Negative

Here are the verb tenses with endings and examples:


~Infinitive (to ___)~
grefen - "to work"
Ending: None -- Just use the stem
Example: grefen (to work)


~Present Tenses (Inside/Forward)~
Present Simple
Ending: -o
Example: grefeno ("I work." "One works.")

Present Progressive
Ending: -ofo
Example: grefenofo ("I am working." "One is working.")

Present Perfect
Ending: -ofno
Example grefenofno ("I have worked here for hours." "One has worked here for hours.")

Present Perfect Progressive
Ending: -ofnolo
Example: grefenofnolo ("I have been working for hours, and...")


~Past Tenses (Right)~
Past simple
Ending: -e
Example: grefene("I worked." "One worked.")

Past progressive
Ending: -efe
Example: grefenefe ("I was working." "One was working.")

Past Perfect
Ending: -efne
Example: grefenefne ("I had worked." "One had work.")

Past Perfect Progressive
Ending: -efnele
Example: grefenefnele("I had been working for hours, and...")


~Future Tenses (Left)~
Future
Ending: -u
Example: grefenu ("I will work." "One will work.")

Future Progressive
Ending: -ufu
Example: grefenufu ("I will be working." "One will be working.")

Future Perfect
Ending: -ufnu
Example: grefenufnu ("I will have worked there.")

Future Perfect Progressive
Ending: -ufnulu
Example: grefenufnulu ("I will have been working for hours by then.")


~Temporal Negative (Outside/Behind)~
Negative Infinitive
Ending: -i
Example: grefeni ("I never worked." "He will not work." "Not to work.")
*Usually implies "never did, doesn't, and never will"

Negative Present
Ending: -ifi
Example: grefenifi ("I don't work." "You aren't working.")

Negative Past
Ending: -ini
Example: grefenini ("It didn't work." "She was not working.")

Negative Future
Ending: -ili
Example: grefenili ("This will never work.")

Xeigrich
Vice Captain


Xeigrich
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:34 pm


7~~~EXTENDED VOCAB
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:35 pm


8~~~CULTURE AND BACKGROUND

Xeigrich
Vice Captain


Xeigrich
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:37 pm


9~~~Other Notes/Miscellaneous/To Do


~To Do~
Everything!

I need...
*Vocabulary
*Conscript
*Grammar
....*Tenses and Verb Conjugations
....*Cases and Noun Declensions (If Any)
*Finalize the Phonetics
*Some more kooky ideas
*Feedback and Comments
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:42 pm


RESERVED (Just in case)

Xeigrich
Vice Captain


Dave
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:04 pm


If you're looking for ideas on how to make a simple language that's easy to learn, you might be interested in looking at Sonja Elen Kisa's language Toki Pona, which is just about the most minimal language I've ever encountered.

http://www.tokipona.org

Its only shortcoming, in my opinion, is that it forces you to think in such simple terms that you can't properly express yourself, so things can get ambiguous. Its grammar is delightfully simple, though.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:31 pm


Dave
If you're looking for ideas on how to make a simple language that's easy to learn, you might be interested in looking at Sonja Elen Kisa's language Toki Pona, which is just about the most minimal language I've ever encountered.

http://www.tokipona.org

Its only shortcoming, in my opinion, is that it forces you to think in such simple terms that you can't properly express yourself, so things can get ambiguous. Its grammar is delightfully simple, though.


Thanks! I'm checking it out right now.

I really need to go through everything I've got so far, organize it, then work it into something more along the lines of what my goal is. It seems to be easier for me to create a decently complex language, then simplify it from there, rather than create a simple language from the start.

EDIT: Toki Pona has some interesting concepts. I do like the simplicity of it, but it seems almost TOO simple. I like the irony and contrast of Toki Pona's happy, positive nature and the 'dark teenage poetry' but it definately isn't the best language for that.

Xeigrich
Vice Captain


Forgedawn
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:54 am


Xeigrich
O (oh) (short O)


Short o is the same as "ah" or a, as in "bot", "wrought"

Long o is the o as in "boat", "wrote", etc.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:03 pm


Forgedawn
Xeigrich
O (oh) (short O)


Short o is the same as "ah" or a, as in "bot", "wrought"

Long o is the o as in "boat", "wrote", etc.


Oh. (no pun intended)

It's long O then... but I must have been thinking Japanese again, because for Japanese, you've got a regular O which is abrupt, and long O which ends in a sort of "oo" sound and dragged out a bit.

Xeigrich
Vice Captain


Forgedawn
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:08 pm


Xeigrich
Forgedawn
Xeigrich
O (oh) (short O)


Short o is the same as "ah" or a, as in "bot", "wrought"

Long o is the o as in "boat", "wrote", etc.


Oh. (no pun intended)

It's long O then... but I must have been thinking Japanese again, because for Japanese, you've got a regular O which is abrupt, and long O which ends in a sort of "oo" sound and dragged out a bit.


Sou desu ne! xd

Yeah, English is weird like that. I think the name comes from the fact that (at least to English speakers), there's sort of a glutteral stop (somebody who knows IPA charts let me know if that's not the right word) at the end of the sound--usually written with an h, but not always--oh has a stop like that to keep it short, so in fact the written h changes the sound completely differently.

Annoying, yes?
Short
A >> ae [as in aesc, which I'm too lazy to charamap right now, or your a]
E >> eh
I >> ih
O >> ah
U >> uh

Long
A >> a / ay / ei
E >> ee / i
I >> ai / ei (if you're German, anyway)
O >> oh
U >> oo / u

I just realized I tend to lecture/rant. Sorry rolleyes
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