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 Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:48 pm
Currently, I'm focusing not on reading kanji, but learning hiragana first, and then kanji, and I found something worth asking.
Okay, so in the occasion of a long vowel, in the example of Tokyo, where both o's are long, would I put the symbol for 'to' followed by the symbol for 'o', and then the symbol for 'kyo' followed by the symbol of 'o' to make them long?
Or, is this not true, and you just memorize when it is long or not?
EDIT: Silly me, I completely forgot about long/double constanonts. How do you write them??? Like 'nippon' for instance, or a long n...
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:17 am
actually, in tokyo, the long "o" sounds are written with the symbol for "u," so you would literally write it "toukyou" とうきょう. The O in Osaka is long also, but you write a double o for that, so it's literally "oosaka" おおさか.
At first it seems like it's this way to confuse you, but it's because most kanji have two readings, the chinese and japanese reading. "Tou" and "kyou" are the chinese readings of the characters used for the capital, and long o sounds are made with "u." "Oo" and "Saka" are the Japanese readings for the kanji characters used for the city, so the long o is written with an "o." It's a little confusing, an until you learn more kanji, you'll probably have to just memorize which words use "u" to extend the "o" sound, and which use "o."
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:23 am
Freakezette actually, in tokyo, the long "o" sounds are written with the symbol for "u," so you would literally write it "toukyou" とうきょう. The O in Osaka is long also, but you write a double o for that, so it's literally "oosaka" おおさか. At first it seems like it's this way to confuse you, but it's because most kanji have two readings, the chinese and japanese reading. "Tou" and "kyou" are the chinese readings of the characters used for the capital, and long o sounds are made with "u." "Oo" and "Saka" are the Japanese readings for the kanji characters used for the city, so the long o is written with an "o." It's a little confusing, an until you learn more kanji, you'll probably have to just memorize which words use "u" to extend the "o" sound, and which use "o." I've always heard anything with a double "o" being pronounced with two "o" sounds. And that's hearing speaking and singing. Aiko san can most likely help more than I could, but that's how I've always heard it. And in roumaji when prolonging a sound for "o" sound you should write "ou" instead of "oo" so that you know it's a prolonged sound and not an extra sound.
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:21 pm
Hermonie Urameshi Freakezette actually, in tokyo, the long "o" sounds are written with the symbol for "u," so you would literally write it "toukyou" とうきょう. The O in Osaka is long also, but you write a double o for that, so it's literally "oosaka" おおさか. At first it seems like it's this way to confuse you, but it's because most kanji have two readings, the chinese and japanese reading. "Tou" and "kyou" are the chinese readings of the characters used for the capital, and long o sounds are made with "u." "Oo" and "Saka" are the Japanese readings for the kanji characters used for the city, so the long o is written with an "o." It's a little confusing, an until you learn more kanji, you'll probably have to just memorize which words use "u" to extend the "o" sound, and which use "o." I've always heard anything with a double "o" being pronounced with two "o" sounds. And that's hearing speaking and singing. Aiko san can most likely help more than I could, but that's how I've always heard it. And in roumaji when prolonging a sound for "o" sound you should write "ou" instead of "oo" so that you know it's a prolonged sound and not an extra sound. "oo" and "ou" do not have differenc in pronounciation, oo is more of kun yomi and ou on yomi. but at time, oo or ou can be softer then other.
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:22 pm
this is also what is for ei and ee
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:48 pm
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:27 pm
Okay. Thank you. And is there anyway to tell the difference when to write, for example, o 'oo' or 'ou' or e 'ee' or 'ei'??
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:42 pm
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:11 am
well in hiragana=
えい
ええ
おお
おう
but at kanji, you have to know reading. also, i shoud say, i have always thought it is naturally easy know where it is "oo" or "ou", but then again, it maybe it is not same for foreigner,no?
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:12 am
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:15 am
and double is written with sokuon(っ) so in hiragana=にっぽん
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:34 am
Silverotter107 Okay. Thank you. And is there anyway to tell the difference when to write, for example, o 'oo' or 'ou' or e 'ee' or 'ei'?? Most long o's are written with 'ou', and most long e's are written with 'ei'. Then, as you continue in your studies, it's up to you to figure out which are the exceptions - there really aren't that many. Aiko_589 and double is written with sokuon(っ) so in hiragana=にっぽん I think you're missing the word 'consonants' in that sentence there...
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:22 pm
Unless I'm mistaken, there is a much easier way to write it. You do the symbol for "to". Then do a symbol for "ki" with a small "yo" diagonally bottom left. Equally exactly Tokyo.
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:06 pm
Brascus Unless I'm mistaken, there is a much easier way to write it. You do the symbol for "to". Then do a symbol for "ki" with a small "yo" diagonally bottom left. Equally exactly Tokyo. I wrote this earlier, the o's in Tokyo are "long" so the way you actually write it (in hiragana) is to-u-kyo-u or とうきょう. With the "ei" verses "ee" there are only a couple words that are written with "ee" that you'll use with any regularity, and the only one I can think of right now is "oneesan" which means (someone elses) older sister, otherwise the long "e" sound is written "ei' The "oo" and "ou" difference comes easier when you learn kanji, you only see ou for chinese reading (onyomi) of kanji, and ususally you'll see oo for the japanese reading (kunyomi). OU is much more common. Here are some words that use "OO" for the long O 多い ooi (many) 大きい ookii(big) 十 too (a reading for 10) 遠い tooi (far)
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:32 pm
Brascus Unless I'm mistaken, there is a much easier way to write it. You do the symbol for "to". Then do a symbol for "ki" with a small "yo" diagonally bottom left. Equally exactly Tokyo. i am sorry but, that is foreigner pronounciation. kyo,kya,kyu,pya,pyu,pya and other one like it are one syllable each and are NOT to be pronounce wtih ANY i SOUND but KYO it is one syllable so toukyou is (syllable seperate by "/") to/u/kyo/u i really thought this woudnt need to be explain, but i guess overestimated.
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