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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:38 pm
Okay, this started in the homosexual debate thread, but then it got off topic, and so as suggested I'm starting a new thread, and the title is lame cuz I couldn't think of anything better. I'm going to post the stuff pertaining to this discussion, and the little side trails coming from it.
Just a note, I love hearing people's opinions, but it's best if when you state something you have evidence to back it up, or to show us where you got it. That's just how debates are suppose to be xp
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:39 pm
Zullala Of coarse I can 3nodding . The Believers Sin is also known as The Sin Unto Death: In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.(1 Corinthians 5:4,5) And this is the confidence that we have in him, that is we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us; And if we know that he hear us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. there is a sin unto death; I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death. (1 John 5:14-17). This verse is hard to understand, but is pertains to (1 Corinthians 5:1) It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. (1 Corinthians 5:1) the person in this verse had sex with his father's wife *it does not say his mother so this probably means a step mother.* the reason why the offender/sinner received the The Sin Unto Death was because he was a Christian and did not even try to hid the fact that he was sleeping with his father's wife. This gives Christianity a bad name. So to get rid of the tarnish on our name the offender/sinner died an early death. Since homosexuality is becoming more and more open that means that Christians who sleep with the same sex are most likely not going to hide it. But is says right there in the Bible that homosexuality is an abomination in the Lords eyes. With Christianity knowing full well that this is a terrible sin, they will be given The Sin Unto Death/The Believers Sin. does this help? pleas if you have any questions ask me. I will be happy to answer them. 3nodding Skittles Well, in the 1 Corinthians verse, I don't think it's talking about death. When it says handing him over to satan, I think it's still in part referring to the same thing the end of the chapter says. Verses 12-19 are talking about not having part with those who commit such sins and call themselves brothers. Then it goes on to say: 12For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."It says put away. God doesn't want them in the church, as you said, because it make the church look hypocritical. And in verse 5 when it says hand them over to satan, I believe it's referring to the same thing. If they aren't in the church, there in the world, and satan is the ruler of the world. So I don't believe that it's talking about literal death. I read through the same section in several different versions of the bible to see if what I was seeing in one, followed through all of them. I think the new living translation made it pretty simple: in the name of the Lord Jesus. You are to call a meeting of the church, and I will be there in spirit, and the power of the Lord Jesus will be with you as you meet. Then you must cast this man out of the church and into Satan's hands, so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved when the Lord returns. Anyways, those are my thoughts, and I would love to hear more of yours! xd Zullala I see what you mean. But you can't just through some one out of the Church. I mean the Church itself is not exactly tangible. If you’re a Christian you are in it. The Church is Christians and Christians are on the earth. That means the Church is already on the earth witch is run by Satin. So I still think it means physical death, but I could be wrong.Quote: in the name of the Lord Jesus. You are to call a meeting of the church, and I will be there in spirit, and the power of the Lord Jesus will be with you as you meet. Then you must cast this man out of the church and into Satan's hands, so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved when the Lord returns. LOl, even in this translation it still sounds like physical death to me. I guess we are at a draw and neither you nor I are going to sarcoma to ether of the opposite sides. 3nodding Mako18 Just one note Satan isn't the ruler of the world Shinja_Odoriko Dr_Pepper_tgns Actually he is and shouldn't this new debate be under a new topic? stare stare stare stare ... *waves* Hey again. Not sure if I feel like engaging in this discussion again, but for those who were to lazy to read the other pages; I'm a gay rights activist. So if anyone wants to hear my opinion, lemme know. *makes heart with hands to Dr_Pepper_tgns* Later Brian. ^^
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:50 pm
ok, I just want to state my point and I want someone to challenge it with evidence, not just a guess or an opinion
Satan does not rule the world, he is merely and ex-angel that is doing everything possible to tempt people away from God. If he truly ruled the world (which God would not allow except in the case of Job's world) we would be in utter chaos
Anyone disagree?
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:25 pm
I'm almost positive that there is a scripture that says that he was given dominion over the earth, but at this point in time that doesn't stand, cuz I don't have scripture.....just letting you know I'm looking. And I'll post more later when I have stuff to back up what I think.
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:26 pm
Skittles I'm almost positive that there is a scripture that says that he was given dominion over the earth, but at this point in time that doesn't stand, cuz I don't have scripture.....just letting you know I'm looking. And I'll post more later when I have stuff to back up what I think. ok, and if I am proved wrong through your efforts I will admit my wrong
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:50 am
Satan can rule the earth but not have full control over it. And in a way this world is pretty much full of chaos, after all we are killing and hurting each other for no reason exept our selfish/sinful natures. But because God is still in control there is still much order at the same time, and once He has it the way He wants it no one will be acting on this selfish/sinful nature. I remember the bible saying something about satan ruleing the earth, and I don't have a bible handy, but I can see the results of his rule regardless. And as for God leting satan do so, it is very much like Job's case, one has to know how bad hell is to be gratefull for God's love. After God is totaly in control (like in Job's case) God let satan do His thing but before that God wouldn't let satan touch Job, such is the power God has over satan even though satan is ruler of this world.
Something to think about. Let me know if some of that was unclear.
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:53 am
Lithanus Satan can rule the earth but not have full control over it. And in a way this world is pretty much full of chaos, after all we are killing and hurting each other for no reason exept our selfish/sinful natures. But because God is still in control there is still much order at the same time, and once He has it the way He wants it no one will be acting on this selfish/sinful nature. I remember the bible saying something about satan ruleing the earth, and I don't have a bible handy, but I can see the results of his rule regardless. And as for God leting satan do so, it is very much like Job's case, one has to know how bad hell is to be gratefull for God's love. After God is totaly in control (like in Job's case) God let satan do His thing but before that God wouldn't let satan touch Job, such is the power God has over satan even though satan is ruler of this world. Something to think about. Let me know if some of that was unclear. my point is that Satan does not rule the Earth. God doesn't allow him to.
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:34 pm
Okay, well I didn't find specifically what I was thinking it said, maybe it's somewhere I forgot to look, but here is what I found:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
It's referring to satan as the god of this world, who has blinded those who don't believe. If you go on to read it talks about how God has shown us the light because He does have authority over satan, as Lithanus was saying.
And in Daniel 7:26 it's talking about how the dominion will be taken away from satan.
But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:11 pm
i too remember the bible saying that God gave satan dominion over the earth... but that doesent mean he has dominion over us. we are born with sin, yes, but we can choose to turn our backs on satan. satan has power over the world, literaly. the material stuff. but not our power to choose(hopefully someone understood what i said and can translate it, cause i dont think i said it the way it's suspost to sound sweatdrop )
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Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:20 pm
You made perfect sense to me. I agree also with what you said, that satan doesn't have the control over us, we are given free will. When he temps us we have a choice.
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:08 pm
I agree with you guys there Except I still don't believe Satan was ever given any control over the Earth as we know it. He was booted out of Heaven and he made his own "dimension" (or hell as we know it) Hell is where his dominion lies and he can do nothing but tempt us on Earth (he can't control the Earth in any way)
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:51 pm
Mako18 I agree with you guys there Except I still don't believe Satan was ever given any control over the Earth as we know it. He was booted out of Heaven and he made his own "dimension" (or hell as we know it) Hell is where his dominion lies and he can do nothing but tempt us on Earth (he can't control the Earth in any way) Can you prove that biblically? If satan doesn't have control of the earth, how come he has such a strong holds in so many people's lives? If satan doesn't control the earth or the people, how does he control and destroy people's lives?
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:30 pm
Skittles Mako18 I agree with you guys there Except I still don't believe Satan was ever given any control over the Earth as we know it. He was booted out of Heaven and he made his own "dimension" (or hell as we know it) Hell is where his dominion lies and he can do nothing but tempt us on Earth (he can't control the Earth in any way) Can you prove that biblically? If satan doesn't have control of the earth, how come he has such a strong holds in so many people's lives? If satan doesn't control the earth or the people, how does he control and destroy people's lives? People give in to their temptations, to put it simply
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:49 pm
Upon studying my Concordance, I have discovered the answer: Satan is indeed the Ruler of the Earth. There are 2 instances in which he is refered to as such.
"The god of this age [ie. Satan] has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Corinthians 4:4 NIV
Jesus speaking: "I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world [ie. Satan] is coming. He has no hold on me," John 14:30 NIV
I now stand corrected
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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:17 pm
I'm sorry I was too lazy to find them myself..... sweatdrop , but I am glad you found what you were looking for. It is kinda of a scary thought though, satan, ruler of this world.*shivers*
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