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Kaze_neko
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:28 pm


I need to broaden my reading horizons as I mostly read whatever Harlequin throws out and Johanna Lindsey novels so my statements may not be entirely true.

That said I'll go with what i've experienced reading Harlies. There really aren't too many different types of women reading these. Pick one up and you'll get a chick who is:
A. Wishy washy to the point you wonder if she can survive an actual long term relationship.
B. Smart enough to know her own mind, but naive about men or relationships in general.
C. Ones who can run, walk and talk circles around every man except the one she's dealing with.
D. The mighty powerhouses who fall down far more easily than expected.

Are there more out there? Am I missing some? It must just be the books I pick up cause in the store i just go "ohh, new book", pick it up and go. So they all feel like they are pretty much the same person over and over.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:23 pm


You forgot the quiet, sensitive ones who would love the person deeply and forever if they ever manage to tell the guy they love him.

But yeah the list seems pretty good to me.

Dewdew


Kaze_neko
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:43 pm


I would think that would be Type A. Those one infuriate me for some reason. I hate how they figure 'hey if I hang out with this guy long enough, he'll get the hint that I like him.' The happy endings at the end of those types of stories, I always feel like they shouldn't be. It's like I expect the mind reading and guessing games to continue long after the story is over. Not cute.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:36 pm


Well, I was actually thinking of some particular characters I have read about and I don't think that they are type A. Its not that these characters think the guy will get the hint, it is more that they are afraid of what will happen if they let the guy know there feelings. (Even though it is often pretty obvious to the reader that the guy is in love with her, though sometimes he's not) And in one of those stories the guy is pretty dense and thinks she is in love with someone else. Ahhh that series annoys me I am only half way through

Dewdew


Kaze_neko
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:39 pm


Put that way, yeah, they are a category all their own. Suck that those types of stories are more annoying than cliffhanger exciting.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:43 pm


Interesting .. At the Back Fence did an article on the 8 Female Archetypes as well as the 8 Hero Archetypes.

Here is their list for females:

The Boss - This is a "take charge" female, who accepts nothing but respect.

The Survivor - This is a lady who is long accustomed to sizing up everyone in a room the minute she enters.

The Spunky Kid - She's the girl with moxie. She's not looking to be at the top of the heap; she just wants to be in her own little niche.

The Free Spirit - Playful and fun loving, this heroine travels through life with a hop, skip and a jump, always stopping to smell the flowers and admire the pretty colors.

The Waif - This is the original damsel in distress.

The Librarian - She's prim and proper, but underneath that tight bun lurks a passionate woman.

The Crusader - This lady is on a mission, and she marches right over anyone in her way.

The Nurturer - Not always Suzy Homemaker, this lady takes care of everyone.

Now .. what's really interesting is that all the types you mentioned, fit fairly neatly into this list as well.

All I have to say is that us writers are a rather uncreative bunch if we can't find more than 8 female archetypes. :p

taligator
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Kaze_neko
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:02 pm


The writer in me is what promted me to create this thread. I wouldn't say we were uncreative as we are...just out of options. That list right there covers the spectrum, is there really any other type out there. I'll have to look into that hero list.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:49 pm


It's interesting because even if you think your character ISN'T like that when it comes down to it they are a combination of archetypes.

The lead female in my novel is very educated, interested more in books than men, naive of the world, yet manipulative when it comes to something she wants.

I can pin her down to being the Librarian and yet she's got aspects of the Boss and Spunky Kid as well.

It's funny that even in gay novels (two men specifically) they still pair them up with male/female archetypes.

taligator
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Kaze_neko
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:24 am


Well, yeah. Realistically women all over the planet have some of each trait. In reality it's what makes a well rounded person. But in stories it sometimes feels like a particular trait is so over exaggerated that it's unbelievable, exasperating or just plain dumb. There has to be another way to use these types. From different perspective maybe, I don't really know... In fact, I totally lost my train of thought.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:46 am


No, I get it. They can have these traits but why are they so overwhelmingly one thing over another.

Like the bookish woman who's innocent and pure and yet completely trusting and naive. Err.

I've met a lot of bookish women who were anything BUT naive and innocent. We perpetuate the stereotypes and it's kinda frustrating.

For example, why can't a librarian be hell on wheels in bed? You know the whole 'still waters run deep' thing.

taligator
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Kaze_neko
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:15 am


*whew* Yes, you do understand. Thank goodness! I wrote that around midnight and I was tired. That's my problem with most novels. We do tend to pertetuate the stereotype. But is it better to overdo it or underdo(not a word I know) it? Is there a happy medium. Would it be entertaining? Questions and no examples.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:47 am


I have to say that I think LaVyrle Spencer does a good job with most of her heroines in that they don't perfectly fit in any one mold. I just never got that feeling that I was reading the same story over and over.

If you haven't read them I suggest you give them a shot ...

taligator
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Dewdew

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:51 pm


That reminds me of a book my classics teacher told me to read "The Goddes in every woman." It is a psychology book which basically explains that every woman has aspects of the different Goddesses and how different ones come trough t different times, in different people.
I have not read it yet myself though.
But maybe that is why we can't get away from these archetypes

As for the archetypes I don't think it is so much as what archetype the girl is but how she developes through the story that affects how good the story is.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:12 pm


Dewdew


As for the archetypes I don't think it is so much as what archetype the girl is but how she developes through the story that affects how good the story is.


That's the thing. In alot of stories they DON'T develop at all! Maybe I should stop reading Harlies, the endings are pretty convoluted and generic.

Taligator, I checked those links for the archetypes. That was good. The list I made if broken down can fit at least 3 of those. The hero archetypes I needed now I think I can get a better handle on my own story. I'll also look up that author you spoke of.

Kaze_neko
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Gataki_426

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:57 pm


taligator
Interesting .. At the Back Fence did an article on the 8 Female Archetypes as well as the 8 Hero Archetypes.

Here is their list for females:

The Boss - This is a "take charge" female, who accepts nothing but respect.

The Survivor - This is a lady who is long accustomed to sizing up everyone in a room the minute she enters.

The Spunky Kid - She's the girl with moxie. She's not looking to be at the top of the heap; she just wants to be in her own little niche.

The Free Spirit - Playful and fun loving, this heroine travels through life with a hop, skip and a jump, always stopping to smell the flowers and admire the pretty colors.

The Waif - This is the original damsel in distress.

The Librarian - She's prim and proper, but underneath that tight bun lurks a passionate woman.

The Crusader - This lady is on a mission, and she marches right over anyone in her way.

The Nurturer - Not always Suzy Homemaker, this lady takes care of everyone.

Now .. what's really interesting is that all the types you mentioned, fit fairly neatly into this list as well.

All I have to say is that us writers are a rather uncreative bunch if we can't find more than 8 female archetypes. :p


I totally agree.
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