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 Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:36 pm
Is it just me or does it seem like people who are hardcore pro-choice(not necessarily one that are personal pro-life, or pro-choicers who are hardly involved in the movement) seem to leech off society? Even though it seems like a harsh criticism I seriously having heard some of their arguments I begin to wonder if they really do take advantage of people's good will.
For example I've often heard the argument: "There are enough problems in society, lets focus on the women that are already born" Is this not the opitimy of egotism? Wanting society to focus on your problems and not those of others, putting yourself above those you deem unworthy.
Another common thing "pro-choice" supports often do is criticise legislation that requires abortion clinics to notify women of health consequences and fetal pain. They claim pro-lifers are just trying to push through propoganda, when in reality it is informing women of the serious risks involved with abortion. It is infact they who are trying to push their point across with deceit.
Some other things I've heard are that if a woman is forced to go through with a pregnancy that it can ruin her life, yet I've rarely heard of pro-choicers that actually seek to correct these problems. Further they miss the point that while it may harm the mothers life, it will end the fetuses.
We are often told that we should not punish women for sex. Ignoring the fact that no other natural body process is seen as punishment. How can something that would normally happen within in you be punishment I ask? It cannot is the logical answer. Another point to raise is that they willfully engaged in intercorse knowing the full ramifications of the act. In reality what they are seeking is a quickfix to problems that arise from their actions, and do not care who it hurts or how much it hurts them, including the father of the child, siblings of the child, or the fetus itself.
They pick and chose what parts of the constitution they feel are applicable to thier situation, yet completely ignore religious freedom and rights to free speech. Some examples of this are how they have tried to force pharacists to give out contraception despite his or her religious beliefs against it, or how they have made laws forcing protests around abortion clinics to be pushed away for the clinic itself.
They ignore the obvious problems that arise from abortion outside the immediate killing of the fetus, such as low birth rate, very high mental health problems for women who have abortions, the destruction of womens abilities to have children in the future, and the eventual pressuring of religious organizations to accept abortion. These things are self destructive to society, yet are all but ignored by most pro-choicers.
With all these facts and more I've come to the conclusion that the pro-choice movement will force its way through, no matter the problems that arise from abortion, or the destruction it will cause to people involved and society as a whole. Leeches is the word for it as they leech off of society to fill thier own wants.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:18 pm
karllikespies We are often told that we should not punish women for sex. Ignoring the fact that no other natural body process is seen as punishment. How can something that would normally happen within in you been punishment I ask? It cannot is the logical answer. Another point to raise is that they willfully engaged in intercorse knowing the full ramifications of the act. In reality what they are seeking is a quickfix to problems that arise from their actions, and do not care who it hurts or how much it hurts them, including the father of the child, siblings of the child, or the fetus itself.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:22 pm
Wonderful points. 3nodding
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:35 pm
Well put.
Another thing to consider: They often say that adoption is irresponsible, because of how horrible the adoption system is.
Strange that the solution to a bad adoption system is abortion as opposed to, oh, fixing it?
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:02 pm
Excellent post, Karl.
I.Am is right.
If the adoption system is so terrible, why, instead of destroying innocent life, fix the problem, so abortion won't even be needed anymore?
*sigh*
I suppose because it's ten times easier to go to a clinic, pay $300-$700 off the back, risk mental, emotional, and physical health for you and anyone else who's close to you than to actually go on peaceful protests or put together organizations that fund for better shelters and foster homes.
I'unno. Instead of creating another problem altogether, why can't we try to fix the original one?
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:30 pm
that would be going against human nature... see, we tend to work that way- we do something that starts good (reproducing) then, we somehow find a way to either over-do it, either by doing it too much or in a new way that ends up doing something bad (overpopulation, unwanted pregnancy). then we come up with an extremist "cure" for something we started in the first place (abortion) andi t ends up being worse than what we did badly in the first place (40 milliopn deaths and a general lack of caring and respect for new life)... it happened with a type of deer, crossbreeding of animals (killer bees), pretty much any time we try to ******** with nature, it comes back to bite us in the a**.
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:39 pm
*sigh*
Don't you just love human nature?
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:02 pm
One thing I find out is the whole pharmaist not giving contraction to people, their job is to give the medician they need, exspecially if they have a doctors not. You would think they would be happy that people are trying to prevent pregnancies instead of having abortions and woman also take some to help with hormones,ect...but ways
They I find it ironic that their for abortion cause they say fetuses are leeches yet they leech of people themselfs.
Also they say adoption is irresponsible, yet they want to abortion which is not taking any responsiblity at all (odd that they say it is and call it a consequnce when it's really an action). They hate it so much, then help fix it, I though their for choice so they should help the woman and support the ones that choose give it up for adoption or keep it yet they don't a lot of the times.
Besides, adopt doesn't always cost. Some woman have the babies at home (not recommemed though, cause some complacations can come up) then drop them of at hospitals or fire stations with no questions asked or paying to do so (that's what they do out here for California, they do that to try to prevent the woman from killing the baby or worry what parents might think or money,ect...).
Basically some of them told me that they were selfish and only care for themselfs (not all are like that but some admitted it).
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:42 pm
sachiko_sohma One thing I find out is the whole pharmaist not giving contraction to people, their job is to give the medician they need, exspecially if they have a doctors not. You would think they would be happy that people are trying to prevent pregnancies instead of having abortions and woman also take some to help with hormones,ect...but ways To this: It is a Catholic belief that contraception is immoral because you are trying to "play God," in a way; Basically, because you are specifically trying not to get pregnant, it is a Catholic belief that you are saying, "Forget you God, I'm not having a baby whether you want me to or not." So, as a Catholic, to hand out contraception would go against my beliefs. In a personal sense, I see nothing wrong with contraception. But, by my religion, it is immoral, and I cannot with a clear concsience fill out a prescription for contraception, unless it is for another reason, such as controlling your hormones, etc. I personally would push for the Church to allow contraception, because I don't see what is wrong with it, and, in fact, I think it is good. But as long as the Church says that contraception is wrong, I cannot, with a clear conscience, use it or give it to someone. I encourage it, in a personal sense, but... I don't think I'm making sense. sweatdrop While saying, "It's a good idea to use contraception if it is not against your belief system," is okay by my standards, I couldn't go out and buy contraception for someone, and, if I were a pharmacyst, I couldn't fill out the prescription. I'd have to have someone else do it.
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:13 pm
I.Am sachiko_sohma One thing I find out is the whole pharmaist not giving contraction to people, their job is to give the medician they need, exspecially if they have a doctors not. You would think they would be happy that people are trying to prevent pregnancies instead of having abortions and woman also take some to help with hormones,ect...but ways To this: It is a Catholic belief that contraception is immoral because you are trying to "play God," in a way; Basically, because you are specifically trying not to get pregnant, it is a Catholic belief that you are saying, "Forget you God, I'm not having a baby whether you want me to or not." So, as a Catholic, to hand out contraception would go against my beliefs. In a personal sense, I see nothing wrong with contraception. But, by my religion, it is immoral, and I cannot with a clear concsience fill out a prescription for contraception, unless it is for another reason, such as controlling your hormones, etc. I personally would push for the Church to allow contraception, because I don't see what is wrong with it, and, in fact, I think it is good. But as long as the Church says that contraception is wrong, I cannot, with a clear conscience, use it or give it to someone. I encourage it, in a personal sense, but... I don't think I'm making sense. sweatdrop While saying, "It's a good idea to use contraception if it is not against your belief system," is okay by my standards, I couldn't go out and buy contraception for someone, and, if I were a pharmacyst, I couldn't fill out the prescription. I'd have to have someone else do it. I guess I can sort of understand where your coming from (My Grandparents are the only catholics in the family and the rest are not so I don't know much about it and never had that problem)...and as long as someone else can give it to them then I see no major problem...it's when they can't get it at all that would be a major problem to some, if not a lot of people. I think they should allow birth control cause not every couple wants kids or only a fews kids that might seem like a problem to some. Maybe is just the way I was taught.
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:39 pm
Well, there are non-artificial forms of contraception; I can't remember what it's called (And it's -not- rhythm,) but there's a method in which you find out when you are more fertile and less fertile, and you just abstain when you are fertile.
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:32 am
I.Am sachiko_sohma One thing I find out is the whole pharmaist not giving contraction to people, their job is to give the medician they need, exspecially if they have a doctors not. You would think they would be happy that people are trying to prevent pregnancies instead of having abortions and woman also take some to help with hormones,ect...but ways To this: It is a Catholic belief that contraception is immoral because you are trying to "play God," in a way; Basically, because you are specifically trying not to get pregnant, it is a Catholic belief that you are saying, "Forget you God, I'm not having a baby whether you want me to or not." So, as a Catholic, to hand out contraception would go against my beliefs. In a personal sense, I see nothing wrong with contraception. But, by my religion, it is immoral, and I cannot with a clear concsience fill out a prescription for contraception, unless it is for another reason, such as controlling your hormones, etc. I personally would push for the Church to allow contraception, because I don't see what is wrong with it, and, in fact, I think it is good. But as long as the Church says that contraception is wrong, I cannot, with a clear conscience, use it or give it to someone. I encourage it, in a personal sense, but... I don't think I'm making sense. sweatdrop While saying, "It's a good idea to use contraception if it is not against your belief system," is okay by my standards, I couldn't go out and buy contraception for someone, and, if I were a pharmacyst, I couldn't fill out the prescription. I'd have to have someone else do it.
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:58 am
Beware the Jabberwock Well I mean, if you can do it to regulate hormones then why not fill out the perscription? It's VERY common for people to go on birth control for just that reason (it was the reason I started taking birth control, as well). A pharmasist doesn't ask WHY the person is going on birth control, so unless someone says otherwise you could always just assume that they were taking it for medical reasons. Exactly...except for EC. I think that's the one that pharmacists are refusing to fill for the most part, not entirely sure, but I'm also pretty sure that only has one purpose.
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:07 am
Pretty says it dosn't kill a fertalized egg...and yet one of its uses is to prevent a fertalised egg from attachign to the uterous. I link her, and she ingored it, like a common choicer...I'm glad I'm done with that site...
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:25 pm
Beware the Jabberwock I.Am sachiko_sohma One thing I find out is the whole pharmaist not giving contraction to people, their job is to give the medician they need, exspecially if they have a doctors not. You would think they would be happy that people are trying to prevent pregnancies instead of having abortions and woman also take some to help with hormones,ect...but ways To this: It is a Catholic belief that contraception is immoral because you are trying to "play God," in a way; Basically, because you are specifically trying not to get pregnant, it is a Catholic belief that you are saying, "Forget you God, I'm not having a baby whether you want me to or not." So, as a Catholic, to hand out contraception would go against my beliefs. In a personal sense, I see nothing wrong with contraception. But, by my religion, it is immoral, and I cannot with a clear concsience fill out a prescription for contraception, unless it is for another reason, such as controlling your hormones, etc. I personally would push for the Church to allow contraception, because I don't see what is wrong with it, and, in fact, I think it is good. But as long as the Church says that contraception is wrong, I cannot, with a clear conscience, use it or give it to someone. I encourage it, in a personal sense, but... I don't think I'm making sense. sweatdrop While saying, "It's a good idea to use contraception if it is not against your belief system," is okay by my standards, I couldn't go out and buy contraception for someone, and, if I were a pharmacyst, I couldn't fill out the prescription. I'd have to have someone else do it. Same here, that's the reason I started taking it and know a lot of other girls my age that take it for that reason as well. EC, prevents pregnancy, it stops it before the egg attaches the uterous. If your already pregnant it doesn't work, it's not made for adorts but to prevent pregnancy a lot together. Basically it's really a strong Birth Control pill ( that's why it's called contraception, but emergency contraception) used for emergencies like rape or tear in the condom, not ment to be used all the time like the regular birth control pill. You have 72 hours to take it after sex and after that it won't work. So i'm guess that if the pharnasits don't agree with the birth control, that is the reason why they refuse to had it out.
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