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 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:06 pm
I have been recently thinking about the topic " If you have bad parents, will you turn out to be bad?". It has been bothering me since my friends parents think that my parents are bad so they assume I'm bad. I think that that is socialy a standard in out society that bad parents= bad kids. So what I'm wondering is:
Do you think that this is true?
Do you think that society thinks this is true?
If so, why state reason why?
If not, state why?
This has really been getting on my nerves since I'm not able to do anything with my friends anymore, so I'm wondering if the parents are being fair or just stupid.
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:40 am
Coming from an abusive or bad home has been correlated to criminal behavior in dozens of psychological and criminological studies. It's simply one risk factor; having bad parents alone does not CAUSE you to become a criminal or a bad person. The correlation, though, is very strong.
This is unsurprising since our most powerful role models are our parents. They literally shape us into who we are, whether we're conscious of this or not. Especially in our youngest years, we are totally at the mercy of their influence which can change us for ways that are largely permanant for the rest of our lives.
Society thinks this is true because it IS true that bad parents often churn out bad kids. Unfortunately, society tends to make undue generalizations, ignoring the cases where kids raised by bad parents turn out just fine.
All of this brings up the question of what makes a good parent anyway? Often it is defined in terms of how the kids turn out, so then the whole argument becomes circular. Bad kid equivocates with bad parenting in the minds of many.
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:22 pm
I see what you mean, now that you bring it up people do make the assumtion that bad parents = bad kids, and bad kids= bad parents. This is the same thing with good parents and good kids.
What makes a good parent has so many factors going into it its hard to count. The kids, the parents, the situation they are in, these are all things that when different you have to raise you child differently.
This makes me bring up the question about my self? Why am I doing fine with my self despite my undesirable upbrining, I mean other kids in my situation would be shooting up herion or stuff like that.
I honestly don't understand this myself.
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:57 pm
Well now it depends on your definition of bad. My dad is a drugy with no job, and my mom has 3 kids with 3 different people. My Mom beat the s**t out of me when I was 4, so bad, that I had to go live with my dad. Now my dad is crazy, and trys to hit me. Now by the logic of "Bad parents=Bad kids", I would be an abusive, stupid, Druged up little annoying a** right? Well I am not, quite the contrary. I am a pacifist, on the honer role, Help out my teachers, and in advanced classes. Mind you, I do drink and do drugs, but I can control it!
Saying bad parents make bad kids is just an excuse for the stupid kids who don't have to try because their parents suck. This is stupid. As the movie "A Nights Tale" says, "You can always change your stars"...Meaning Don't ******** worry who your parents are, and do what needs to be done, and shut up!
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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:00 pm
ImNotaFashionStatment This makes me bring up the question about my self? Why am I doing fine with my self despite my undesirable upbrining, I mean other kids in my situation would be shooting up herion or stuff like that. I honestly don't understand this myself. Well, different personality theorists will give you different takes to explaining this. Generally though, I'd say it's probably simply a result of your sense of self. If you have a strong sense of self and remain steadfast and stubborn in not becoming yet another bad statistic, so to speak, it can be pulled off. But this still had to come from somewhere, probably a non-parental inspiration or role model you had. Or maybe your parents aren't as bad as they think they are? Without knowing more, I can't say. Another perspective, inspired a bit more by Kimp's post, is that if you see your parental role models behaving in certain ways that cause them problems and pain, you learn to avoid those behaviors through vicarious learning. Now, what exactly makes a kid copy versus be the antithesis of bad parental behavior I don't know. I should find a study on this subject... I'm sure there are PLENTY.
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Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:28 pm
Oh, yeah! I don't know why I frogot about the be opposite of bad parents thing.( I talked with my brother about this subject about this a few months ago) But when I was thinking about that I thought for sure that was the reason, but with so many other people falling into the same path as their parents despite the fact that they know that doing it causes pain. And I'm pretty sure its a undissputed fact that people avoid pain. But then maybe there is somthing more deep in peoples sub-concious or somthing to that extent, OR it could just mean that people are really stupid.
As for the whole stubborn thing. That might be it, because I have had teachers, parents, principals, friends, ext... tell me that I'm stubborn. And I do retain a very strong sense of morals in my opinion.(People find it funny that I will shop lift but I won't steal from individual people).
As for a deeper psychological reason, I think that when kids are raised by bad parents some of them don't even care if they live or die and think that other people think the same. So they continue these patterns because its the only thing they know or they don't care.( for example my brothers girlfriend used to walk around in the middle of the night hoping that some one would find her and kill her). Its probably alot more complicated than that, but I just thought I would give a stab at it.
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:07 am
As other people have been saying, it does depend on your sense of "bad." However, I think that the idea that a person is abusive (for example) because his parents were abusive is just an excuse; perhaps a person is more likely to be abusive if he was raised in an abusive household, but that person always has the choice to change.
My grandfather was raised in a very bigoted home; my great grandfather hated all people with skin darker than a light tan, of any ethnicity. Both of my great uncles share his views, but my grandfather disagreed with my great grandfather from the time he started school. My grandfather felt that skin color had no bearing on intelligence, strength, or anything else.
He was never taught to respect other people, but learned to anyway.
My parents always raised me and my sister to respect others, to care about our education, and to be polite. My sister hates school, screams at my parents about how it sucks to be a smart upper middle class blonde girl attending a magnet school with lots of friends and permission to do basically whatever she wants, and is otherwise verbally abusive.
As a result of these two situations, I think that most people use bad parenting as an excuse, rather than a reason, for their behavior.
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:08 pm
Kalile Alako, your post made me think about Adlerian birth order theory and other birth order theories. Psychological studies have been done to attempt to see if there are discernable personality differences based upon birth order. While evidence is inconsistent, there is some evidence that birth order has an impact on your personality. One of the arguments for why goes something like this...
The first child gets the undivided attention of the parent, and so they do whatever pleases them. Now, the second child must compete for attention. Do something different, or creative to get noticed. Subsequent children tend to adapt different styles of behavior than their siblings to get noticed by their parents. These could be either positive skill outlets or more negative forms of behavior.
So by this standpoint, it is completely not the parents fault that one kid may turn out 'bad' because it is a natural tendency for siblings to compete with one another for parental attention. However, if we take a look at some of the humanistic psychologists like Rogers, this is not the best conclusion. Rogers states that we all tend to grow to greater levels of complexity and in healthy directions. Presumably, this would mean that if the parents give adequate attention to each child, each child should turn out just fine.
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:36 pm
I'm not sure if this is the right place, but I do believe that it will be impossible to fully understand the development of the mind not only because of the complexity of the brain but also that out enviroment changes so often and we adapt to it. Not to mention that every person is different in a physical sense. But that is no reason not to try and speculate on things with reasonable evidence, but one shouldn't make decisions that could affect peoples lives on these unstable finds.
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:24 pm
ImNotaFashionStatment I'm not sure if this is the right place, but I do believe that it will be impossible to fully understand the development of the mind not only because of the complexity of the brain but also that out enviroment changes so often and we adapt to it. Not to mention that every person is different in a physical sense. But that is no reason not to try and speculate on things with reasonable evidence, but one shouldn't make decisions that could affect peoples lives on these unstable finds. One thing I like about the behaviorist school of thought in psychology is that they don't care about internal states nor this so-called 'complexity' of the brain. Behaviorists focus on the environment and only things that are empirically measurable. This excludes all internal states (sorry, no psychoanalysis allowed!). You can make plenty of decisiosn that affect people's lives by changing the environment. We don't have to understand the 'complexity' of the brain to make good decisions in structuring environment to change people.
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:24 am
It depends. In some circumstances, yes. but there are more things that contribute to your behavior, such as school, friends, the enviroment you are brought up in, etc. Yes, your parents have a huge influence but in some cases the kids are able to see outside the box, and to them, other lifestyles can make more sense. And personaly, i think its probibly more of your friends parents being downright stupid that your family being 'bad'.
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:16 pm
Starlock ImNotaFashionStatment I'm not sure if this is the right place, but I do believe that it will be impossible to fully understand the development of the mind not only because of the complexity of the brain but also that out enviroment changes so often and we adapt to it. Not to mention that every person is different in a physical sense. But that is no reason not to try and speculate on things with reasonable evidence, but one shouldn't make decisions that could affect peoples lives on these unstable finds. One thing I like about the behaviorist school of thought in psychology is that they don't care about internal states nor this so-called 'complexity' of the brain. Behaviorists focus on the environment and only things that are empirically measurable. This excludes all internal states (sorry, no psychoanalysis allowed!). You can make plenty of decisiosn that affect people's lives by changing the environment. We don't have to understand the 'complexity' of the brain to make good decisions in structuring environment to change people. I don't know for sure, but I would think that internal states do have some affects on out behavior. If that is true than they sould be a factor, and should be considered in the making of the enviroment.
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:52 am
Back to parents, I say there are exceptions for everything. For example I'm oldest and have basically the opposite personality of my parents, and they're great people but I couldn't stand living with them so I moved out to a different province asap. My little brother is pretty much identical to my father, my dad has a twin but my dad and little brother are more alike. And he's doing well for himself too, works a few jobs, volunteers, studying to be a doctor and is very popular.
In another matter, I think that all military families (or at least ones living on base) are psychotic when you get to know them. Speaking from being raised in Atlantic Canada airforce family and having many relatives in military.
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:16 pm
You Rule Supreme Back to parents, I say there are exceptions for everything. For example I'm oldest and have basically the opposite personality of my parents, and they're great people but I couldn't stand living with them so I moved out to a different province asap. My little brother is pretty much identical to my father, my dad has a twin but my dad and little brother are more alike. And he's doing well for himself too, works a few jobs, volunteers, studying to be a doctor and is very popular. In another matter, I think that all military families (or at least ones living on base) are psychotic when you get to know them. Speaking from being raised in Atlantic Canada airforce family and having many relatives in military. After a long hiatus I have returned to once again force my two cents in!! I have to say that your absolutely right on that last point. Anyway. While your parents are very much responsible for your initial upbringing, you decide what kind of person you are. Its your choice. I have seen too many people use the excuse of "My parents were bad so its not my fault I ended up bad." The best thing in that case is for you to get on oprah and b***h, just to look like an idiot to the rest of the world. Better yet get on Dr. Phil. He'll probaly ripp you up one side and down the other."Steps down off of soapbox.
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Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:44 am
Actually that's a stereotype that children from bad homes are mostly mean, vulgar, and brutal. And just like every stereotype- it's almost 98% true.
I personally live in a poor country. Where over 30% of the citizens don't have jobs, and crime is very common. I know a lot of children from bad families, since my father is a drunken idiot, and everybody knows that drunken idiots need someone who's worse than them to feel like they deserve to live. So I've saw the sons of my fathers "friends". And I'm 100% sure that every single one of them will end up in jail.
Mostly because they are brutal imbeciles.
And If I can't judge people by their intelligence and character, than how should I judge?
Plus, there is a genetic concept - 50% of the intelligence is inherited from one of your parents. Thankfully I was lucky to inherit my mothers intelligence, and she's a doctor. (Isn't it sad that even the best of us make mistakes?(In this case- marrying a drunken retard). That's how it ends when you make decisions out of such primitive feelings like love.
So back to the genes. You inherit those things from your parents:
- Some basic neurological patterns
- The hormone level
For example- if your father has to much testosterone you'll most likely end up just like him.
But most of the personality is created by the environment. That's why children from "bad" homes are mostly vulgar and brutal, even if they had good parents.
(For example adopted children)
But I don't think hormones are crucial in the decisions of ones worth. You can train every aspect of your mind. For example -
you can train your memory with books such as "mega memory", and be a great student, even if you have bad genes.
You can increase your IQ using IQ increasing techniques and hypnosis.
So basically, if you really,really try you can be everything, and if you just slack off and do nothing, you'll be nothing.
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