Welcome to Gaia! ::

Reply The Anti-Creationism Guild
Theory...

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

Kitashki

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:51 pm


Meh, my mother told me my father's theory on how the Bible was written:
Quote:
It was by this couple of hillbillies who got high on drugs, went up a mountain, came back down, and said "I saw God." They then made up the Bible, and asked people to follow them.

Sorta silly... but it might be possible. xp Any opinions?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:35 am


I'm not an expert myself, but from what I know:
The old testament was written by scholars who were knowledgeable about myths in the area. Genesis is a collection ancient creation myths.

The new testament was written by an assortment of characters who all new Jesus in some way.

It's quite possible to have a 'religious' experience without being on drugs.

It's apparent that it wasn't a couple of hillbillies who wrote the Bible; it was dozens of scholars and prophets.

I've personally only read about half of Genesis, and it does appear quite like a range of myths held by ancient people;
How land and water, sun and moon, flora and fauna came about.
How the snake came to have no legs.
How languages became diversified.
How the animals got their names.
it reminded me of some of the Aboriginal dream-time stories I've heard.

Mechanism
Crew


Yamato Aijou

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:49 am


1: You'd do well to revise your definition of "theory".

2: It's certainly possible that your father is right, but the Bible coincides with other ancient myths and SOME (very little) historical places and events, in a very non-literal way. So we'll assume that he's wrong and that it was knowledgeable people, of zealous and absolute faith perhaps, but merely strong believers and not stoned dudes.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:43 pm


How the Bible was written is a long and complicated story. Suffice it to say that once you realise how it was written, you'd have to be very strong in faith (stupid) to keep your religion.

gigacannon
Crew


ponjavic

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:19 pm


God, this is my kind of guild xd
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:14 pm


ponjavic
God, this is my kind of guild xd

What, anti-religion?

So, Gigacannon, dont's suppose you could outline how the Bible was written?

Anyway, myths don't just come outta thin air.
To reply to the original post again;
Dathu
The first forms of religion began in hunter-gather societies. At that time it was simply a creative appreciation of nature. The people, having minds and thoughts, placed similar minds and thoughts into the earth around them, anthropomorphizing them. They believed all things had spirits; rocks, trees, water, whatever. Originally just an abstract thought, it changed dramatically when they found themselves in need of certain things from the spirits. They would pray to the trees when they needed fruit, beg the river to overflow with fish when they were short on game to hunt, or they even asked the sky to rain when the lands became dry. Overtime, "official" people were selected to talk to these sprits. They were chosen because were wise, very old, or had luck in making decisions. These people became the first shamans. Now, so far it was still nature being worshiped, but what happened to change that was favoritism. People who lived in dry lands began to view the spirits of rain as being most important. Or people who had unfertile crop lands would pray more to the god of harvest (notice how abstract and specific to their needs the spirits are becoming). As their relationship with the spirits became more personal and close, the spirits began to take human form so as to appear easier to approach. Anyway, as certain gods became more and more favored, a hierarchy appeared in the spiritually realm, and the first seeds of monotheism were sown. Not only were some gods higher in rank, but some actually became gods of gods, though more often than not, were viewed as parents. Examples of this would be the Greek gods with Kronos as the lord of lords. Through time smaller gods simply became fazed out, and new religions began to offer only one god for worship. But aside from the role of the gods, the role that these beliefs had in society began to change as well. In its early days religion was a simple way to beg nature for favors, it eventually became a way to bring about unity. First it only united small groups such as families, but later it unified entire communities. Now a large group of people were bound by a common belief, and began to identify themselves through their religion. As their numbers grew, the power of the shaman grew as well, and the first officials were born. With this power came a way to control, and the ways of living were first to be controlled. Lifestyles and philosophies on morals were created to "please the gods." Over time these rules became more and more complicated and needed to be written down (the first bibles). As the number of followers grew more officials were needed (the first orders). And now we have an organized religion and a religion based society. Only now religion is a form of order and control where people of power wield the word of the gods like whips. You can see where it goes from there.

Why is this important?

Because it shows that man didn't just wake up and say, "You know what, I think there is one god out there that created everything." Many people would like to argue that man always knew something was out there that created him, and that religion is the realization of that. Not true. There are countless artifacts and archeological finds to support this notion of religious evolution.

Mechanism
Crew


windswept_fury

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 3:01 pm


Mechanism
I'm not an expert myself, but from what I know:
The old testament was written by scholars who were knowledgeable about myths in the area. Genesis is a collection ancient creation myths.

The new testament was written by an assortment of characters who all new Jesus in some way.

It's quite possible to have a 'religious' experience without being on drugs.

It's apparent that it wasn't a couple of hillbillies who wrote the Bible; it was dozens of scholars and prophets.

I've personally only read about half of Genesis, and it does appear quite like a range of myths held by ancient people;
How land and water, sun and moon, flora and fauna came about.
How the snake came to have no legs.
How languages became diversified.
How the animals got their names.
it reminded me of some of the Aboriginal dream-time stories I've heard.


Wow. And that first one was a far stretch of the imagination. Anywho, you don't /know/ if what you say is fact or not. Christians believe that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible, when he was on Mt. Sinai, getting the 10 commandments the first time. The first 5 books were dictated by God himself. The other books werewere written by various people who had either visions or encounters with God.
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:37 am


windswept_fury
Wow. And that first one was a far stretch of the imagination. Anywho, you don't /know/ if what you say is fact or not. Christians believe that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible, when he was on Mt. Sinai, getting the 10 commandments the first time. The first 5 books were dictated by God himself. The other books werewere written by various people who had either visions or encounters with God.

Thanks for the clarification; as I said, I'm no expert.
However, you should recognize that you do not necessarily know what happened, either.

Mechanism
Crew


psamathe

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:12 am


Dathu
Only now religion is a form of order and control where people of power wield the word of the gods like whips. You can see where it goes from there.


I just want to add a little clarification to this-- I guess we're all Darwinians here, so "now" can mean quite a span of time, but in either case religion has almost always been a power structure. It's obvious in feudal Europe or other fairly recent situations (think peasants crowded in a stuffy church, all spreading plague amongst each other..), but I'd bet that the the Greeks and Romans liked to "have god(s) on their side" as well. Further back, a shaman or whatever your choice of term is unlikely to bring a bad omen against a powerful family, or make an otherwise politically unpopular "reading". Given that the substance of religion is all subjective, created by the priest or shaman or, god forbid, the average person with his own bible, it's scary and more often than not swayed by that person's political leanings.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:19 am


NOCTVRNVS
Are you kidding me?

The funny thing about science is that, while it continues to be a sad excuse for logic which the human race's stupider members can rely upon to make them feel all good inside, it also disproves many theories which were created for that same purpose in the first place. Interestingly enough, evolution is one of those. In fact evolution is so easy to disprove that I have seen comic strips dissect and destroy the entire theory single-handedly.

I found this one particularly hilarious:

"Big Daddy"

Not only is it funny, it's sadly what schools are like these days.

The fact is, there's more evidence proving the Creation "theory" ("truth" is a better word) than there is evolution! These things, the "cro-magnon man" and whatever else have you, were all made up, fabricated lies to make scientists feel good and to try and draw people away from God! Simple rare skeletons with deformations were called "stages of man's evolution"? Yeah right, that's just pathetic. The so-called "Neanderthal man" was proven to actually just be the skeleton of a man who had severe arthritis. Why didn't you hear about it? Because science is just one huge cover-up. They don't want you to hear about it. This is atrocious. The "Cro-magnon man" is described as "an earlier stage of man who had the physique and mentality of modern man". Oookay, so, I ask, what's the difference? They're exactly the same! One had a defect in some part of its skeleton! Are you telling me this is reason enough to declare it a seperate "stage of evolution"? Ludicrous. What if someone dug up the skeleton of Joseph Merrick three-hundred years from now (yes I know it's preserved in a museum but that's beside the point). Would some (undoubtedly superior to any other human) scientist give it a nifty name like Homo Headdeformus and call it a "stage of evolution"? Likely.

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
The skeleton of Joseph Merrick (aka "The Elephant Man").

Scientists are, in my opinion, some of the stupidest people on Earth. To quote the book of Romans, "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools". That describes science perfectly. Some other cases in which science disproves itself are carbon-dating. Scientists are o-so-obsessed with this phrase, "carbon-dating"! Woo, carbon dating, now we suddenly know exactly how everything in all of history happened! Except, how about Noah's Ark? You know, when the world was washed over with raging storms which covered the entire Earth? The purpose being to wipe the entire planet clean? So how is it, exactly, that carbon dating would still be accurate after the surface is so drastically affected as it would be in this case? And how about that shroud of Turin. Scientists liked bragging about how carbon-dating proves that the shroud is only a few hundred years old. Well, strange, it has recently been re-dated to, quote, "somewhere between 1400 and 2200 years old". Uhhh, yeah, bright guy. Try somewhere around the early-mid 1st century. Kind of weird how we don't hear about the Turin shroud any more, isn't it? You know, because science has to do with fact! Well, as a matter of fact, science continues to disprove itself yet when it does, don't expect to hear about it.

Just like you don't hear about when things in the Bible are proven to be correct or accurate. Why is that? Could it possibly be because scientists run the world and therefore everything we know is a result of their lies and brainwashing? Like so many people have found the media to be? Let me tell you, it's deeper than the media.

Why did we not hear about Sodom & Gomorrah being proven?
Why did we not hear about the shroud of Turin?
Why did we not hear about the Nephilim?

I'll tell you why: Because of the Big Lie. That is, science.

deathNcandy


Mechanism
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:22 am


*reads deathNcandy's post*

News flash. You're not an expert on science or scientists. NOCTVRNVS's claims are unsupported, often verifiably incorrect, and sometimes raging with animosity.

There are simply too many straw-man arguments,fallicious statements, and irrelevant bullshit to reply to without practically writing an essay, which I don't care to do right now.

But I'll try to enlighten you, if only a little.
Science is a logically reasoned investigation of natural and observable phenomena with the purpose of acquiring knowledge.
Scientific communities are varied and many, and there are few traits which all scientists share. One that many share, however, is the practice of criticising peers and, if viable, overturning existing theories to make way for theories which better fit the evidence.
Scientific communities will not widely accept a questionable theory.

Other notes:
There are several specimens of each stage of homo-sapiens' ancestry, many of which are clearly not actually defected.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:43 am


In response to the question I never answered, I don't know exactly how the Bible was written. Nobody does, and that's part of the problem.

However, it would take a dissertation to properly explain. To sum it up, the Bible has been written by many different people, at many different times. We know very little for certain about the authors. The New Testemant, for example, was compiled from letters, testimonies, and many dubious sources. We know for a fact that the Vatican retains, documents that they consider to be important yet omitted from their Bible.

The Bible has been altered, sometimes deliberately, sometimes not, over the centuries. The point is, the Bible has often been compiled by people, of whom we know little, for possibly dubious purposes.

It is not necessarily incorrect (although in many instances one can argue that that is true) but it is in no way trustworthy.

gigacannon
Crew


gigacannon
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:53 am


deathNcandy
NOCTVRNVS


I couldn't help but notice that Chick attempts to disprove gluons using scripture. On the grounds that Jesus keeps protons from flying apart from eachother in the nucleus of an atom.

Chick should be thrown in the loony bin. There's something seriously wrong with the man.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:52 pm


After reading that big-a** post he made, I must agree. People like that need to put their bibles down, take a step back, and breathe cause they've been hitting the holy text WAY too much.

If you believe in something, that's one thing. If you're so obsessed with the religion that you're trying to get people to believe that your deity is the reason why everything is the way it is and that science is a load of bull plop, then perhaps your parents need to start slipping those pills into your pudding again.

Gekido Yuuga

5,850 Points
  • Tycoon 200
  • First step to fame 200
  • Hygienic 200

gigacannon
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:05 am


Well, whether or not it's okay to "convert" people is dependent on whether or not you're right.

If you can't prove that you're right, then you shouldn't really be trying to pressure people into thinking like you do.

My approach is to prove as many things wrong as possible, and then whatever's left over must be right. That way, I'm not actually making anyone believe anything.
Reply
The Anti-Creationism Guild

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum