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 Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:11 pm
Being the age that I am I frequently ask questions. The latest one is whether all of the stories about the great flood, and the ark, and Noah, and getting two of evey single animal on the planet even though Noah had no idea about the Americas, and all of the miracles in the Torah actually happened. Did these things happen but they were stretched? Did these miracles happen just as the Torah says they did? Did they happen at all? Do they just serve as tales to help us through daily struggles? Of course, I don't care if these things are real or not. What matters is that I know there is some kind of G-d watching over us all. I'm just trying to clear out the details in my mind. If anyone has comments please let them loose!
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Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:18 pm
I think that it could have happened if we have timing and numbers off both in the torah and in history with things or it could be, like a more secular opinion is, is that a large flood did happen in that region and that they took all the animals that they knew of
*awaits a possible cold stare from someone*
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:09 pm
In this guild you'll get many different opinions. *shrug* I'm iffy on the reality of a WORLD flood during Noah, but, there is STRONG evidence for a middle east flood during that time period. So... I suppose that the Noah story could be true, in a localized fashion.
Zonko, however, will say that the Torah is completely literally true.
I somewhat disagree, but... *shrug* Are you (the OP) Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox? I'd think one of the latter three, judging by asking the question, so... if you are, there's a lot more leeway in doubting the exact historical veracity of the Torah than if you're Orthodox.
I believe in the historocity of the Torah from Avraham onwards, and I vacillate about the rest. I haven't figured out my own views entirely.
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:44 pm
RoseRose In this guild you'll get many different opinions. *shrug* I'm iffy on the reality of a WORLD flood during Noah, but, there is STRONG evidence for a middle east flood during that time period. So... I suppose that the Noah story could be true, in a localized fashion. Zonko, however, will say that the Torah is completely literally true. I somewhat disagree, but... *shrug* Are you (the OP) Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox? I'd think one of the latter three, judging by asking the question, so... if you are, there's a lot more leeway in doubting the exact historical veracity of the Torah than if you're Orthodox. I believe in the historocity of the Torah from Avraham onwards, and I vacillate about the rest. I haven't figured out my own views entirely. What exactly is a reconstructionist? sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:30 pm
Donovinhs Knight RoseRose In this guild you'll get many different opinions. *shrug* I'm iffy on the reality of a WORLD flood during Noah, but, there is STRONG evidence for a middle east flood during that time period. So... I suppose that the Noah story could be true, in a localized fashion. Zonko, however, will say that the Torah is completely literally true. I somewhat disagree, but... *shrug* Are you (the OP) Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox? I'd think one of the latter three, judging by asking the question, so... if you are, there's a lot more leeway in doubting the exact historical veracity of the Torah than if you're Orthodox. I believe in the historocity of the Torah from Avraham onwards, and I vacillate about the rest. I haven't figured out my own views entirely. What exactly is a reconstructionist? sweatdrop it's a stream of "judaism" that believes in adapting their beliefs, traditions, and culture to fit modern society. basicly reform, but a little more extreme.
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:54 pm
Zapper13 Being the age that I am I frequently ask questions. The latest one is whether all of the stories about the great flood, and the ark, and Noah, and getting two of evey single animal on the planet even though Noah had no idea about the Americas, and all of the miracles in the Torah actually happened. how do you know he didn't know? he had well over a hundres years warning. also, all the animals came by themselves. alternatively, the americas themselves could quite possibly have been formed by the flood. a whole year of boiling hot water, deep enough to cover the highest mountains? Quote: Did these things happen but they were stretched? no, everything is quite clear. Quote: Did these miracles happen just as the Torah says they did? they were miracles. why wouldn't they be acurrate? you can argue that, but in doing so you are refuting the divine origin of the torah, everything we hold holy, and the existance of Hashem Himself. Quote: Do they just serve as tales to help us through daily struggles? quite possibly. but then again, it's you against 4500 years of scholars. oh and see above. Quote: Of course, I don't care if these things are real or not. i don't either. i also don't care if the very air i'm breathing is real or not. it would be somewhat awkward if it wasn't. Quote: What matters is that I know there is some kind of G-d watching over us all. i could debate that... Quote: I'm just trying to clear out the details in my mind. If anyone has comments please let them loose!
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:06 pm
RoseRose In this guild you'll get many different opinions. *shrug* I'm iffy on the reality of a WORLD flood during Noah, but, there is STRONG evidence for a middle east flood during that time period. So... I suppose that the Noah story could be true, in a localized fashion. out of context, i'd agree with you. "the world" back then often referrs to the civilised world, which was more or less asia minor, the arabian peninsula, asia, and north africa. however, in order for a flood to cover entire mountains (k2 and everest are in that geographical area), it would be impossible to claim the flood only affected a certain area. Quote: Zonko, however, will say that the Torah is completely literally true. in at least one sense. everything has many meanings, though. Quote: I somewhat disagree, but... *shrug* Are you (the OP) Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox? I'd think one of the latter three, judging by asking the question, so... if you are, there's a lot more leeway in doubting the exact historical veracity of the Torah than if you're Orthodox. well, i can't argue that blue is blue when you think it's orange, can i? Quote: I believe in the historocity of the Torah from Avraham onwards, and I vacillate about the rest. so you believe in the ten plagues? fireballs encased in ice? river of blood? the simultaneous death of thousands, all who just happen to be firstborn? Quote: I haven't figured out my own views entirely. i wish you good luck
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:41 pm
ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight RoseRose In this guild you'll get many different opinions. *shrug* I'm iffy on the reality of a WORLD flood during Noah, but, there is STRONG evidence for a middle east flood during that time period. So... I suppose that the Noah story could be true, in a localized fashion. Zonko, however, will say that the Torah is completely literally true. I somewhat disagree, but... *shrug* Are you (the OP) Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox? I'd think one of the latter three, judging by asking the question, so... if you are, there's a lot more leeway in doubting the exact historical veracity of the Torah than if you're Orthodox. I believe in the historocity of the Torah from Avraham onwards, and I vacillate about the rest. I haven't figured out my own views entirely. What exactly is a reconstructionist? sweatdrop it's a stream of "judaism" that believes in adapting their beliefs, traditions, and culture to fit modern society. basicly reform, but a little more extreme. That's not entirely correct. It's... even less Jewish than that. They believe God is a force of nature, or something... I'm not entirely sure, but their beliefs on the nature of God, when I heard them (and I'm pretty liberal about this) disturbed me. Their High Holiday services disturbed me (I went to them when my dad was dating a Reconstructionist). Their Shabbat services didn't feel quite right... It just... didn't feel right, at all... No offense to any Reconstructionists, but... meh... I also hear I went to a synagouge that was known as extreme for Reconstructionists... so... maybe I got a skewed view... but, this woman my dad dated... she let her son blow out the Shabbos candles after she lit them!!! O.o... that... is just... i couldn't believe it when I heard it!
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:42 pm
RoseRose ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight RoseRose In this guild you'll get many different opinions. *shrug* I'm iffy on the reality of a WORLD flood during Noah, but, there is STRONG evidence for a middle east flood during that time period. So... I suppose that the Noah story could be true, in a localized fashion. Zonko, however, will say that the Torah is completely literally true. I somewhat disagree, but... *shrug* Are you (the OP) Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox? I'd think one of the latter three, judging by asking the question, so... if you are, there's a lot more leeway in doubting the exact historical veracity of the Torah than if you're Orthodox. I believe in the historocity of the Torah from Avraham onwards, and I vacillate about the rest. I haven't figured out my own views entirely. What exactly is a reconstructionist? sweatdrop it's a stream of "judaism" that believes in adapting their beliefs, traditions, and culture to fit modern society. basicly reform, but a little more extreme. That's not entirely correct. It's... even less Jewish than that. They believe God is a force of nature, or something... I'm not entirely sure, but their beliefs on the nature of God, when I heard them (and I'm pretty liberal about this) disturbed me. Their High Holiday services disturbed me (I went to them when my dad was dating a Reconstructionist). Their Shabbat services didn't feel quite right... It just... didn't feel right, at all... No offense to any Reconstructionists, but... meh... I also hear I went to a synagouge that was known as extreme for Reconstructionists... so... maybe I got a skewed view... but, this woman my dad dated... she let her son blow out the Shabbos candles after she lit them!!! O.o... that... is just... i couldn't believe it when I heard it! Are reconstructionists also those "jews" who dont circumcise?
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:47 pm
Donovinhs Knight RoseRose ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight RoseRose In this guild you'll get many different opinions. *shrug* I'm iffy on the reality of a WORLD flood during Noah, but, there is STRONG evidence for a middle east flood during that time period. So... I suppose that the Noah story could be true, in a localized fashion. Zonko, however, will say that the Torah is completely literally true. I somewhat disagree, but... *shrug* Are you (the OP) Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox? I'd think one of the latter three, judging by asking the question, so... if you are, there's a lot more leeway in doubting the exact historical veracity of the Torah than if you're Orthodox. I believe in the historocity of the Torah from Avraham onwards, and I vacillate about the rest. I haven't figured out my own views entirely. What exactly is a reconstructionist? sweatdrop it's a stream of "judaism" that believes in adapting their beliefs, traditions, and culture to fit modern society. basicly reform, but a little more extreme. That's not entirely correct. It's... even less Jewish than that. They believe God is a force of nature, or something... I'm not entirely sure, but their beliefs on the nature of God, when I heard them (and I'm pretty liberal about this) disturbed me. Their High Holiday services disturbed me (I went to them when my dad was dating a Reconstructionist). Their Shabbat services didn't feel quite right... It just... didn't feel right, at all... No offense to any Reconstructionists, but... meh... I also hear I went to a synagouge that was known as extreme for Reconstructionists... so... maybe I got a skewed view... but, this woman my dad dated... she let her son blow out the Shabbos candles after she lit them!!! O.o... that... is just... i couldn't believe it when I heard it! Are reconstructionists also those "jews" who dont circumcise? either that, or entirely secular.
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:50 pm
ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight RoseRose ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight RoseRose In this guild you'll get many different opinions. *shrug* I'm iffy on the reality of a WORLD flood during Noah, but, there is STRONG evidence for a middle east flood during that time period. So... I suppose that the Noah story could be true, in a localized fashion. Zonko, however, will say that the Torah is completely literally true. I somewhat disagree, but... *shrug* Are you (the OP) Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox? I'd think one of the latter three, judging by asking the question, so... if you are, there's a lot more leeway in doubting the exact historical veracity of the Torah than if you're Orthodox. I believe in the historocity of the Torah from Avraham onwards, and I vacillate about the rest. I haven't figured out my own views entirely. What exactly is a reconstructionist? sweatdrop it's a stream of "judaism" that believes in adapting their beliefs, traditions, and culture to fit modern society. basicly reform, but a little more extreme. That's not entirely correct. It's... even less Jewish than that. They believe God is a force of nature, or something... I'm not entirely sure, but their beliefs on the nature of God, when I heard them (and I'm pretty liberal about this) disturbed me. Their High Holiday services disturbed me (I went to them when my dad was dating a Reconstructionist). Their Shabbat services didn't feel quite right... It just... didn't feel right, at all... No offense to any Reconstructionists, but... meh... I also hear I went to a synagouge that was known as extreme for Reconstructionists... so... maybe I got a skewed view... but, this woman my dad dated... she let her son blow out the Shabbos candles after she lit them!!! O.o... that... is just... i couldn't believe it when I heard it! Are reconstructionists also those "jews" who dont circumcise? either that, or entirely secular. this is what happens when you grow up only knowing of 3 types of judaism sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:55 pm
Donovinhs Knight this is what happens when you grow up only knowing of 3 types of judaism sweatdrop you poor soul stare
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:59 pm
ZonkotheSane Donovinhs Knight this is what happens when you grow up only knowing of 3 types of judaism sweatdrop you poor soul stare what!? whats with that look gonk
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 7:28 pm
cut down those quote trees xd
And zonko, no offense, but the " stare " comes off a bit condescending sometimes xp sweatdrop
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 7:30 pm
darkphoenix1247 cut down those quote trees xd And zonko, no offense, but the " stare " comes off a bit condescending sometimes xp sweatdrop but they are happy little trees bob ross would be so proud biggrin
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