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 Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:52 pm
There is a theory that magic is science. The only difference is that we haven't figured out a way to obtain concise, consistant results from a magical practice, and that science is only magic that can be repeatedly proven and reproven under certain conditions. What do you believe?
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:30 pm
to be honest, and no offence is meant by this, but this theroy you mention holds to many faults to be plausible...
the first is that, with science, to much relies on the exacts of this plane of exsistence....
as for the magic part.... first and foremost, magic is mostly sleight of hand; and Magik or Magick depending on who you are, deals with the manipulation of mystical forces from another plane. Second, those that believe in the ability to manipulate the mystic forces are the only reason Magik or Magick is still around.... the power of belief after all. thrid, Magic is around to entertain and, if done right, be used to steal from people....
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:44 pm
well. once we do figure magic out to a science then it will be.
i believe that magic is jut people using more of their brain. so yes. its science.
after all. we used to think that the stars were gods and peole and magical stuff.
so, magic is magic until we all accept it
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:23 pm
The mind is the most powerful thing on earth, although I do believe in magic, the power of thought is more powerful than anything
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Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 10:24 am
it_landry to be honest, and no offence is meant by this, but this theroy you mention holds to many faults to be plausible... the first is that, with science, to much relies on the exacts of this plane of exsistence.... as for the magic part.... first and foremost, magic is mostly sleight of hand; and Magik or Magick depending on who you are, deals with the manipulation of mystical forces from another plane. Second, those that believe in the ability to manipulate the mystic forces are the only reason Magik or Magick is still around.... the power of belief after all. thrid, Magic is around to entertain and, if done right, be used to steal from people.... I, unlike many other occultists, do not distinguish between parlor tricks and supernatural ability by different, unrealistic spelling. If I mean parlor tricks, I will mention it exactly like that. And actually it doesn't hold "too many faults to be plausible". Think of alchemy vs chemistry.
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Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 10:22 am
LilaMalvae it_landry to be honest, and no offence is meant by this, but this theroy you mention holds to many faults to be plausible... the first is that, with science, to much relies on the exacts of this plane of exsistence.... as for the magic part.... first and foremost, magic is mostly sleight of hand; and Magik or Magick depending on who you are, deals with the manipulation of mystical forces from another plane. Second, those that believe in the ability to manipulate the mystic forces are the only reason Magik or Magick is still around.... the power of belief after all. thrid, Magic is around to entertain and, if done right, be used to steal from people.... I, unlike many other occultists, do not distinguish between parlor tricks and supernatural ability by different, unrealistic spelling. If I mean parlor tricks, I will mention it exactly like that. And actually it doesn't hold "too many faults to be plausible". Think of alchemy vs chemistry. okay, i will drop the parlour tricks. and while it is true that alchemy, like chemistry, does infact deal with an items chemical make up, but also that alchemy was never found a scientific way that it worked, and relied on the, as they were once called, 'Dark Arts', to make it work. Alchemy was a supernatural phenomenone that had no probable way to make it work scientifically. it was done by manipulating the realms energy...
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Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 11:47 am
But it did pave the way for chemistry. Don't be closed-minded now.
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Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 1:05 pm
im sure that in later years we will find a way to scientificly explain alchemy. and energy is scientific stuff.
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:05 pm
LilaMalvae But it did pave the way for chemistry. Don't be closed-minded now. whos being closed minded, i'm just sayin' that they required to seperate ways to do the same thing, one without reling on the power of what is not known to use, and one that is know to us. Shanna66 im sure that in later years we will find a way to scientificly explain alchemy. and energy is scientific stuff. true, but there are many forms of energy, the energy of the realms that we can not access with supernatural abilities can not qualify to count in our views of science as human beings
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm
it_landry LilaMalvae But it did pave the way for chemistry. Don't be closed-minded now. whos being closed minded, i'm just sayin' that they required to seperate ways to do the same thing, one without reling on the power of what is not known to use, and one that is know to us. Shanna66 im sure that in later years we will find a way to scientificly explain alchemy. and energy is scientific stuff. true, but there are many forms of energy, the energy of the realms that we can not access with supernatural abilities can not qualify to count in our views of science as human beings You are. I don't want to get into an arguement, but I really can't rebuttle your arguement because I'm not exactly sure I understand what you said. But here goes anyway: What I mean is that there is a theory that certain sciences were at once in time, in their roots, a form of "magic", and that the only difference now is the sterile environments, the "control", and sometimes even the Scientific method. Look at modern medicine. Do you think it is a coincidence that most of our modern techniques just suddenly developed during WWII? Of course not, we got it from ancient medicinal techniques from all around the world, with hermetic help of course. (Staff of hermes, HELLO?)
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:10 pm
Also, pyrotechnics, in its day, was not considered a science, but a form of magic. I really can't say that besides our refining techniques that it is any different now than it was then.
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:29 pm
LilaMalvae it_landry LilaMalvae But it did pave the way for chemistry. Don't be closed-minded now. whos being closed minded, i'm just sayin' that they required to seperate ways to do the same thing, one without reling on the power of what is not known to use, and one that is know to us. Shanna66 im sure that in later years we will find a way to scientificly explain alchemy. and energy is scientific stuff. true, but there are many forms of energy, the energy of the realms that we can not access with supernatural abilities can not qualify to count in our views of science as human beings You are. I don't want to get into an arguement, but I really can't rebuttle your arguement because I'm not exactly sure I understand what you said. But here goes anyway: What I mean is that there is a theory that certain sciences were at once in time, in their roots, a form of "magic", and that the only difference now is the sterile environments, the "control", and sometimes even the Scientific method. Look at modern medicine. Do you think it is a coincidence that most of our modern techniques just suddenly developed during WWII? Of course not, we got it from ancient medicinal techniques from all around the world, with hermetic help of course. (Staff of hermes, HELLO?) Hermes has nothing to do with it.... he couldn't even help people with a common cut. also, nothing has changed, even the most sophisticated clean rooms doesn't take any effort at all to contaminate... LilaMalvae Also, pyrotechnics, in its day, was not considered a science, but a form of magic. I really can't say that besides our refining techniques that it is any different now than it was then. also.... that not just science, that also mathmatics.... and if you are tryin' to make a connection from magic and science, why not go all the way and try to connect it to mathamatics.... which created the basic sciences that we know and use...
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 5:11 pm
Do you know what "hermetic" means? Hermes Trismagratis is not just a messenger god, you know. Look up Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn sometime, bub. And I want to know what math has to do with pyrotechnics other than what measurements to use and the chemical formulas for things... that is a method of measurement, a perspective, not the only explanation.
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 5:23 pm
Hey, by the way...
"WHAT HAS CHANGED" has been our technology, that's it. I don't understand where you're getting all of this contamination business from. I'm talking about blood transfusions, medications, vaccinations, etc.
Don't tell me that we just discovered all of that within the last hundred years, because we didn't. There used to be vast, vast libraries of medical treatments in Ancient Baghdad, along with many other kinds of multicultural information. In fact, they even had pretty advanced brain surgery (beyond drilling holes to treat headaches) techniques... All developed without the scientific method, all developed through mystic traditions and "supernatural" practices.
Exorcism is considered a supernatural "science", and it more often treats mental illness than any kind of supernatural posession, so how is it any different than extreme psychological therapy?
If you're offended by the idea of this thread, I'm sorry, but I won't withdraw my statement.
Shamanic practices and meditation techniques based on centuries of metaphysical development have now been quantified into a science. The only difference is in the way it is explained, really. Who cares if you are or aren't actually going to another plane of existance? If it's all in your mind, but it works, who gives a hoot? Magic, science, it's pretty much the same thing except for the techniques and vocabulary. What I'm saying is that most sciences (hard science and soft sciences) are just extensions of old mystic traditions that have gotten rid of their cultural roots and beliefs and have applied more methodical and calculative ways of getting results. That's all.
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:36 pm
it_landry LilaMalvae it_landry LilaMalvae But it did pave the way for chemistry. Don't be closed-minded now. whos being closed minded, i'm just sayin' that they required to seperate ways to do the same thing, one without reling on the power of what is not known to use, and one that is know to us. Shanna66 im sure that in later years we will find a way to scientificly explain alchemy. and energy is scientific stuff. true, but there are many forms of energy, the energy of the realms that we can not access with supernatural abilities can not qualify to count in our views of science as human beings You are. I don't want to get into an arguement, but I really can't rebuttle your arguement because I'm not exactly sure I understand what you said. But here goes anyway: What I mean is that there is a theory that certain sciences were at once in time, in their roots, a form of "magic", and that the only difference now is the sterile environments, the "control", and sometimes even the Scientific method. Look at modern medicine. Do you think it is a coincidence that most of our modern techniques just suddenly developed during WWII? Of course not, we got it from ancient medicinal techniques from all around the world, with hermetic help of course. (Staff of hermes, HELLO?) Hermes has nothing to do with it.... he couldn't even help people with a common cut. also, nothing has changed, even the most sophisticated clean rooms doesn't take any effort at all to contaminate... LilaMalvae Also, pyrotechnics, in its day, was not considered a science, but a form of magic. I really can't say that besides our refining techniques that it is any different now than it was then. also.... that not just science, that also mathmatics.... and if you are tryin' to make a connection from magic and science, why not go all the way and try to connect it to mathamatics.... which created the basic sciences that we know and use... math an science go together. check out equations and theories for the universe
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