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Why They Could Win

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Do you agree?
  Yes, we need to reach out to as many people as possible.
  No, stick with the religious right it's been working so far.
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karllikespies

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:06 pm


Yes it seems difficult to believe and hard to understand with Roe v. Wade so close to being overturned, and a growing sense among the nations youth that abortion is wrong, but there still is a good chance that we could ultimately lose the battle over abortion. Why you might ask? Its not the efforts of pro-choicers nor faulty arguments of our own, but it is our own spirit of exclusion.
Indeed there has been a growth in religious and moral principles among todays youth, more have adopted religious beleifs and think that morality should be a guide for what we use in lawmaking. The question of whether something is right or wrong is seriously asked by many before deciding what laws to make. By a two to one margin todays high school/ college students favor outlawing abortion in most circumstances. So whats there to be afraid of? Well the fact is that most youth today don't adhere to traditional beliefs when it comes to spirituality and religion; Racism and homophobia are almost absent from this generation and most students don't hold thier religious beliefs withing the strict defenitions of one group or another. Many are willing to explore other beliefs and find a personal relationship with God outside the confines of the church. Infact most react badly to attacks against other religions, races, or peoples sexual orientation. I have seen people that are otherwise fairly pro-life been turned away by the attitudes of religious groups.
You might think, hey "pro-life groups aren't discriminatory like you say!" and I'm not accusing all pro-life groups of being so, nor are most people in here, but I have seen time and time again pro-life groups make comments, statements, and take actions that prove to be highly offensive and closed minded.
The focus of most pro-life groups has always been the christain church, although sometimes jewish temples are included. Thier arguments have been heavily biblical and more often than not, lack sources from other religions, ideologies, and belief systems. They will not most of the time reach out to non-traditional groups outside of the religious secition of the population, and even ban people from participating(like how they banned a pro-life gay group for attending the march for life a few years back). I've heard over and over again pro-life people and groups, make racist/rude comments toward musilims, jews, atheist, agnostics, and pagans among other groups. Other times pro-life groups(especially ones that don't limit themselves to pro-life causes) often lump pro-life issues to other issues(for example feminism) that severely limit the ability to reach out to non-traditional pro-life groups.
So in conclusion, while trying to energize the most religious portion of the population to vote pro-life may work in the short term, over the long term it will ultimately be the end of the pro-life movement. The pious and sometimes even hateful attitudes of some pro-life groups has tainted the movement and has put it at serious risk for the years to come. Only by abondoning exclusionary attitudes and having open arms to anybody that seeks to join the pro-life cause, can the movement survive.
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:51 pm


That is exactly why I feel that riligion needs to be set on the back burner when it comes to the pro-lif emovement. My own stance is that what God says is law, but there are those who don't adhear to that beleife, and tyrign to force them to only pushes them away.

But, as we see today, more and more people, with each generation, is becoming riligious while at the same time keepign an open mind. Still...baning a pro-life group simply because they were gay? Ummm...I though the march was public and any pro-life group could atend. Next year if i get to go, I'm marchign with either a pagan for pro-life group, a homosexual and pro-life group.

Tiger of the Fire


karllikespies

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 4:05 pm


[ Message temporarily off-line ]
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 4:50 pm


yes, and you must realize, pro life is not an organism, all of pro life does not follow those foolish thoughts or mindsets. not all of us are vegans, catholics or hippies either. you can't change the mindset of a person. we will not change the pro choice. we can take away a disgusting "right" however, and illegalize a wrong. much the same with banning the homocide of adults despite the opposition from sociopaths. honestly, i believe anyone should be able to make any choice, so long as it is their body they choose to alter or effect. no murder, rape, molestation, harming, abortion, war. yes to suicide, drugs (so long as they don't harm anyone under the influence) self injury. whatever. it's their body, whatever floats their boat.

divineseraph


karllikespies

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:00 pm


Pyro: do pro-life pagan groups exist? I've never heard of any.

divineseraph:I realize that not all pro-life people are the same, the point of the topic was to address how the core or base of the pro-life movement needs to reach out to less traditional pro-life groups. I never argue in favor of changing someones mindset to become pro-choice it is impossible, I only want to make the pro-life side the most appealing it can be to people in the middle.
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:27 pm


karllikespies
Pyro: do pro-life pagan groups exist? I've never heard of any.


eek Its in the linklist dude.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/8383/index.html

Honostly, I'm appauled that any one of the christian faith woudl say that! Is there any way to contact the head of the March? I have a few choice words to say to this person.

Tiger of the Fire


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 8:27 pm


karllikespies
Pyro: do pro-life pagan groups exist? I've never heard of any.

Fo sho they do. There's two online that I'm a member of, in terms of an organization specifically for pro-life Pagans I don't know, but there's a definate group.

Adding onto your post, there are also problems with some of the things that pro-life people say like "I'm pro-choice: I chose to keep my legs shut." while I understand the message you're trying to get across when this is said, it doesn't convey it so beautifully. Saying things like that leads people to believe that to be pro-life you can't have sex unless you want kids, this my friends is not the case.

A pro-life person simply needs to be aware that if they choose to have sex they have to live with the reprocussions of that. I choose to have sex that doesn't mean I choose to get pregnant, it means that I choose to acknowledge the fact that it is a possibility and I'm ready to take responsibility for it.

It shouldn't matter if I'm having sex after marriage, with someone I'm seriously committed to or to random people every night. Sex isn't the issue, the lack of responsibility is.
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 12:52 pm


karllikespies

some comments I've heard from pro-lifers:
- "jews are a violent and agressive people"
-"women are homemakers are need to take care of there families"
-"gays need to die"
-"islam is the culture of evil and death"
-"europeans/canadians have become sick and perverted"
-"we need to send all the wetbacks back to thier own country"


Those are the kind of pathetic douchebags who I believe are only pro-life because it's part of conservative dogma, or because they associate it with being anti-feminist. If they don't care about gay, Jewish, Muslim or Mexican people, why would they care about fetuses (some of whom are already gay or Mexican, and may be born into Jewish or Muslim families!)

La Veuve Zin

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karllikespies

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:29 pm


La Veuve Zin
karllikespies

some comments I've heard from pro-lifers:
- "jews are a violent and agressive people"
-"women are homemakers are need to take care of there families"
-"gays need to die"
-"islam is the culture of evil and death"
-"europeans/canadians have become sick and perverted"
-"we need to send all the wetbacks back to thier own country"


Those are the kind of pathetic douchebags who I believe are only pro-life because it's part of conservative dogma, or because they associate it with being anti-feminist. If they don't care about gay, Jewish, Muslim or Mexican people, why would they care about fetuses (some of whom are already gay or Mexican, and may be born into Jewish or Muslim families!)
Those are also the same people that protest against abortion, but when it comes time to put thier money where there mouth is and improve the adoption systems or the status of single mothers, shut up quickly.

Pyro: No idea where to contact the head of the March.
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 6:01 pm


there's a head of the march? like, a leader? we need a good martin luther king.

divineseraph


Tiger of the Fire

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 6:03 pm


Apparently this woman is a biggot who honostlyt hinks christians are t eonly real pro-lifers and that any one whos claims to be pro-life and isn't a christian is part of some sort of pro-choice sleeper cell... eek

Whoa...sorry...I'm just realy pissed at this woman.
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 1:21 am


I agree. pro-life is moral, not religious. There is a difference.

lymelady
Vice Captain

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The Pro-life Guild

 
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