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| Did you like Sonic Heros? |
| Yes it was fun. |
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88% |
[ 15 ] |
| No it puts Sonic Team to shame. |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 17 |
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 Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:06 pm
Compared to the quality of past STH games, did you like or dislike Sonic heroes?Why?
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:30 pm
Due to the fact you have to constantly stop progress to deal with enemies or minor puzzles, the speed element is completely killed, and thusly the game doesn't flow like SA1 or SA2's action stages did. The rails were buggy, overused and annoying and lead to cheap death (in which I always switched to Fly formation in order to survive them), all skill chain elements were removed from the game so there were no areas, akin to SA1/2 where you needed to complete a certain trick, like destroying several aerial robots in a chain, to continue.
The game relied too heavily on a gimmick which just wasn't fun, 3 of the 4 teams are identical in gameplay style and level progression, it's annoying to be forced to play all levels over and over again to reach the "Last" story, which was pitifully short, easy and unsatisfying noting the hype of the game centred around Metal Sonic's (and Chaotix's) return, yet he appears for all of 6 seconds before transforming. The storyline does not bother to deal with Shadow's demise and outright ignores it after Team Dark and Team Sonic meet up. It adds another stupid and unwanted twist to the series, ie. the clones, which seemed to be added on as an afterthought as they do not appear in gameplay and really have no place in the cutscenes whatsoever, but were put there anyway.
Knuckles, Tails, Rouge and Big are all majorly out of character... to get Big out of character is a startling achievement.
No Chao, which disappointed me.
At the end of the day, the game had no relevance to the Sonic universe at all, whereas Battle which was the GBA release of the same time, was EXCEPTIONALLY significant and cannot be ignored.
So, in closing. Sonic Heroes almost killed me as a Sonic fan. Battle saved me.
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:43 am
Samwise Chubb Due to the fact you have to constantly stop progress to deal with enemies or minor puzzles, the speed element is completely killed, and thusly the game doesn't flow like SA1 or SA2's action stages did. The rails were buggy, overused and annoying and lead to cheap death (in which I always switched to Fly formation in order to survive them), all skill chain elements were removed from the game so there were no areas, akin to SA1/2 where you needed to complete a certain trick, like destroying several aerial robots in a chain, to continue. The game relied too heavily on a gimmick which just wasn't fun, 3 of the 4 teams are identical in gameplay style and level progression, it's annoying to be forced to play all levels over and over again to reach the "Last" story, which was pitifully short, easy and unsatisfying noting the hype of the game centred around Metal Sonic's (and Chaotix's) return, yet he appears for all of 6 seconds before transforming. The storyline does not bother to deal with Shadow's demise and outright ignores it after Team Dark and Team Sonic meet up. It adds another stupid and unwanted twist to the series, ie. the clones, which seemed to be added on as an afterthought as they do not appear in gameplay and really have no place in the cutscenes whatsoever, but were put there anyway. Knuckles, Tails, Rouge and Big are all majorly out of character... to get Big out of character is a startling achievement. No Chao, which disappointed me. At the end of the day, the game had no relevance to the Sonic universe at all, whereas Battle which was the GBA release of the same time, was EXCEPTIONALLY significant and cannot be ignored. So, in closing. Sonic Heroes almost killed me as a Sonic fan. Battle saved me. Pitty. I thought It was a really good game. Some of the music tracks on the game are very cool and the final battle against Hyper Metal Sonic makes a good end to the game.
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:37 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:49 am
Nuala Quite frankly - to play devil's advocate for a moment - I fail to see how having to line up the targets on the shooting stages or the exercise in purgatory that was treasure hunting (Mad Space, anyone?) can be accused of flowing. *Whisper* That's why I specified "Action Stages" wink Quote: I've never agreed with grind rails as a compulsory gameplay element. They're symptomatic of something that I feel that the 3D Sonic games suffer very severely from, which is woefully linear gameplay. Aye, I'd agree with you on that one right away. I still think that translating Sonic 3 & Knuckles type level design into a 3d game would be near on impossible (just look at the 3d Green Hill Zone, it's impossible to navigate that even half as effectively as the original), but they do need to create some deviation to allow players to do more than follow a set path. Quote: I've always believed that as a way to progress through a level, rails'd be a great way of optionally racking up extra points or power ups, but they do nothing for me as unavoidable obstacles. The work very well to that effect in the earlier stages of Sonic Adventure 2, such as Metal Harbour and Green Forest, which have bonus rails. Quote: True. But after some people complained about the SA titles that there was no option to play through certain stages with certain characters, I don't think that the coding team could've won from the flexibility angle. This is why Sega should never listen to the fans, they don't know what they want. Quote: I agree with your point, but what would you have done with him? Not transform wink I would have loved Metal's "imitate Eggman" plan, which did catch me off-guard (despite the ridiculous amount of clues screaming "I AM THE ENDING!") and if he had only have fought as Metal Overlord, I would have enjoyed the ending so much more. I mean it rather contradicts Metal's point of surpassing Sonic if he has to transform to do it, I know he's all like "I BUILT THIS BODY WITH MY OWN TWO HANDS!!!!!11" but seriously, the point of having Metal Sonic is for Sonic to have a rival who beats him at everything. I don't want that role to go to Shadow, there's no point in reviving Metal Sonic if you're going to hand his role to the faker. Quote: I'll actually give Sonic Team some brownie points for moving away from the "Robotnik does something and Sonic stops him" routine - and I don't think they could've managed the pleasant surprise quite so successfully if we'd known that Metal was the villain from the get-go. Agreed. I can't help but feel that the hype engine killed a bit of Heroes. If we didn't know Metal Sonic was in there, it would have been more suprising and rewarding. Quote: I never understood the hype behind Metal Sonic, anyway. All he did in Sonic CD was show up and kidnap Amy in Collision Chaos, and be there to be chased in Stardust Speedway - which was the only point that he could actually damage you, and even then, only if you ran into him. I'm not exactly one who buys into the hype of Metal, but I love the character design and concept. Metal is stronger, faster and beater than Sonic and yet he always loses, and now he's gone off the deep end. I'm certain that there's a character hidden under that murderous psycho just screaming to be developed, and the idea of an AI which exists only to destroy it's counterpart really intrigues me. I was expecting Metal to be more like Gamma, but in the end he was just Chaos. Quote: I think it's been the comics and the OAV who've developed Metal and given him his threatening personality - all he was in his previous game appearance was just a device to make things happen, with less actual threat than a standard badnik. Well all bosses are really glorified badniks, Metal just had a really awesome design, which is why everyone loved him (plus, speaking as little 13 year old Craig playing Sonic CD for the first time, the Stardust Speedway race video in the ending of Sonic CD is just totally kickarse :p) Quote: All that Sonic Battle did was have Shadow say that he wasn't back to full power. Leaving Shadow's return as a mystery isn't just confined to HeroresI know. Battle makes the mystery even worse. It's frankly starting to annoy me. Especially if it turns out to be a marketting gimmick for "Shadow the Hedgehog" Quote: Maybe it's just me, but I think that they were designed as a cliffhanger, Samwise. When did we switch roles?! Aren't you supposed to be the one who has got to the point where you can't be optimistic about future games, whereas I'm showing blind faith even though I've been let down countless times. Quote: I'm privately hoping that what we're effectively seeing is some sort of "Shadow trilogy". SA2 was where it all began, Heroes drip-fed a little more story, and maybe this new Shadow title'll be where we finally find out what's been going on with all of this talk about false memories, clones and whatnot. After Heroes' ending, and since we've seen from the screenshots that GUN're somehow involved in Shadow, it wouldn't surprise me if Rouge had some role to play in the new title, even if it's just the exposition role that Amy had in SA. I wouldn't expect Sega to kill off a cash cow like Shadow again, permanently; but it'd be nice to see some resolution and closure to the story, and Shadow at least to be able to go off and do whatever it is Shadow wants to do. Maybe we'd see him again, but it'd be a different story. This is my hope, also. Only reason I'm buying Shadow., still as you said "Knowing Sega's knack for corporate suicide, it's a forlorn hope. But I can wish." Quote: unfortunately remain in the SA2 mindset, which completely rewrites everything that was supposedly so life-changing for them in SA. THANK YOU! Dang, the amount of backlash I get at another forum regarding that issue, I was beggining to think I was WRONG to expect Amy to be independant or Tails to be a hero in his own right. That was the beauty of Sonic Adventure, each character's plot revolved around their relationship with Sonic while Sonic dealt with the crisis, Tails and Amy each grew up and Knuckles opened his heart to friendship. To have all of that ignored is just annoying. Quote: "Because WE'RE SONIC HEROES!" I was half expecting Knuckles to hit him for that. Quote: As much as I like chao, they aren't everything to me. They're a nice bonus, but they don't make a game, despite the fact that they seem so synonymous with every Sonic title these days. With Heroes' central game having so many flaws, maybe a reasonable chao garden could've compensated for enough flaws to make the game not feel like a poor title for its pedigree and its price. I'm still holding hope for a game which is JUST Chao Garden though... Quote: Yes, Battle told us things about Gerald, Maria and Emerl which fleshed the overall continuity out. But Battle is so far the title which has actually had the least to say about Shadow, who Heroes seemed to concentrate on. I have a sneaking suspicion my absoloute hatred of Shadow is giving me a bias here... Quote: The soundtrack was rather nice though. I liked the mix of musical styles. smile HELL YEAH! Heroes' soundtrack is one of my favourites of all time (all games, not just Sonic. Which when put next to NiGHTS and Kingdom Hearts, is saying alot) the bass in Grand Metropolis is funk-tastic and Hang Castle is just superb, Frog Forest was really nice aswell smile
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:37 am
Samwise Chubb *Whisper* That's why I specified "Action Stages" That's what I get for typing in a hurry. smile Quote: Aye, I'd agree with you on that one right away. I still think that translating Sonic 3 & Knuckles type level design into a 3d game would be near on impossible (just look at the 3d Green Hill Zone, it's impossible to navigate that even half as effectively as the original), but they do need to create some deviation to allow players to do more than follow a set path. My ultimate pipe dream in a Sonic title with a Neverwinter Nights-esque engine: complete freedom within the locations and an adjustable camera to boot. smile Quote: This is why Sega should never listen to the fans, they don't know what they want. I'll be quoting you on that in future, the next time you wonder why they don't listen to sensible suggestions. wink Beware of comments like that - after all, you're a fan, too. smile Quote: I mean it rather contradicts Metal's point of surpassing Sonic if he has to transform to do it, I know he's all like "I BUILT THIS BODY WITH MY OWN TWO HANDS!!!!!11" I'll be honest and say that I can't specifically remember him mentioning surpassing Sonic within the games, but I look at that idea this way in relation to Heroes: Sonic's been transforming into Super Sonic to beat big nasty things for years - you've had no option except to do it to fully complete the SA and Advance titles. And Sonic needs the Chaos Emeralds to do it. If Metal has the intelligence and the ingenuity to make that sort of a transformation without any outside help, then of course he's going to do it and rub that fact in Sonic's face. Quote: Agreed. I can't help but feel that the hype engine killed a bit of Heroes. If we didn't know Metal Sonic was in there, it would have been more suprising and rewarding. I'll take your word for it, since I largely missed the hype, and got most of my Heroes information from forum discussions. Quote: I'm not exactly one who buys into the hype of Metal, but I love the character design and concept. Metal is stronger, faster and beater than Sonic and yet he always loses, and now he's gone off the deep end. I'm certain that there's a character hidden under that murderous psycho just screaming to be developed, and the idea of an AI which exists only to destroy it's counterpart really intrigues me. I was expecting Metal to be more like Gamma, but in the end he was just Chaos. Maybe it's the OAV influencing me, but now that we've seen him in Heroes having dialogue and the beginnings of a personality, I see Metal as rather like Copi-Rezo from Slayers. He's effectively a clone. Everything he is, there's someone else out there who's exactly the same. He was created for a purpose. He will always be defined by his creator againt the Other that he was designed to be pitted against: Sonic. To that end, he's not only angry with his creator (Eggman), but determined that he will prove himself more than the sum of his parts and purpose by surpassing Sonic, and thus publicly shaking off that sense that he has no personality or independent purpose of his own. Quote: I know. Battle makes the mystery even worse. It's frankly starting to annoy me. Especially if it turns out to be a marketting gimmick for "Shadow the Hedgehog" If you're taking cynicism to that level, every plot in every Sonic game ever released is a marketing gimmick. Quote: When did we switch roles?! Aren't you supposed to be the one who has got to the point where you can't be optimistic about future games, whereas I'm showing blind faith even though I've been let down countless times. I wouldn't call this "blind faith". Sonic games do normally at least wrap their endings up in neat packages ( SAdv3, for example). SA2 was borderline in its treatment of Shadow and those throway false memory comments that nobody understood at the time - but they started to make more sense, the more we saw of HeroesSo a blatant cliffhanger for Team Dark does make me wonder - especially knowing that Shadow is going back to where it all began with GUN. I'm probably wrong, but at least there's enough evidence there for there to be plausibility. Quote: and Knuckles opened his heart to friendship. To have all of that ignored is just annoying. To be fair, Knuckles is far more friendly now. But it's come at him completely flinging the heritage and duty that he learned about in SA clean out of the window. Quote: I was half expecting Knuckles to hit him for that. The Knuckles who isn't Sonic's new tagalong probably would've done. Quote: I'm still holding hope for a game which is JUST Chao Garden though... It'd be awfully hard work, since I suspect that it'd be at its most viable if it had backward compatibility with all of the existing chao, and there's no telling when new developments in the coding could render it obsolete. Which would just annoy the sort of people who're chao-crazy enough to buy it. smile And as far as team play goes: I agree. Even playing through the same levels ad nauseum would've been more bearable if the characters' abilities had differed enough to pose a significant challenge when you switched teams. I suppose the character selection process could've utilised more joypad buttons, even though you were never more than two presses away from whoever you wanted. My main gripe was that I'd have liked to see a Lost Vikings style game, where the player had a little more control over everything that was going on, rather than the three characters just scampering along in a conga line the whole time, and only needing one of them to solve each situation.
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:45 pm
eek Holy CRAP! My eyes buggered out after reading all that.
"To me, Heroes was an interesting idea, but a seriously wasted opportunity: let down by a plot that was seemingly trying to be too clever for its own good, poor, unimaginative gameplay mechanics and coding that crumbled under far too little examination."
Holy crap again... That sums everything up in one sentence!
The difficulty on some aspects of the levels ((I.E. Rail Canyon)) with the stupid huge pits and all is a real turn-off. Being a team isn't a bad idea, really. Nor was the "slowing-down to fight" really something that ticked me off. And yeah, the Tracks're kickass, and that's why I got the Sonic Heroes OST I found at Suncoast here...
Now, what REALLY ticked me off, and I have YET to see anyone else complain about this ((As X-Play sucks)) is the frickin' special stages. Dear lord, help me. Wanna know something sort of funny? I'll never beat sonic heroes. Because of the 3rd Emerald challenge. Why? My characters are constantly crawling up the walls uncontrollably. The controls are so stiff, that I can't seem to go in a straight course at ANY given time. I've tried, and quite literally, too, DOZENS of times. and replaying Bingo highway DOZENS of times also ticked me off. I'll never see the ending, and that's that.
And besides, I already knew that Metal was the last baddie before the game even came out. I hate how previews give things like that out, because I got an eye for those sort of things...
*sigh* Guess I'm the only one that gave sonic heroes a bad vote? On a scale of 1-10, it gets a 5.5 from me. Excellent Graphics. Excellent Sound. Excellent concept, but Sega, once again, went the wrong weay about everything. Darn Yuji Naka... Get it right!
Well, Sega got it right with SA and SA2, anyway...
Oh, and one more thing. What do you get for all your hard work getting the emblems? A bunch of crappy 2P-mode options. w00t. SA2 had a MUCH better reward, was actually a challenge, and fun!
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:28 pm
Me likey Sonic heroes. I've even made some KH teams based on it. And I have my own Sonic team too.
Team White Danny:
Danny the White Fox - Flying
Danny the White Hedgehog - Speed
Danny the White Echidna - Power
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:01 pm
I thought Sonic Heroes was awesome.
For me, I almost never had a prob with the game being slowed down. I moved through the levels like a virus through a network.
Lots of people (that I've talked to) seemed to have a prob with the character switching. Strange thing is, if you keep your wits about you it's easy. I mean c'mon, I beat the game quickly. All emeralds (with Team Sonic, a feat someone told me would take months to do, lol) and all As (which translates to all emblems). Beat Super Hard Mode and everything.
For me, this game came closer to original Genesis Sonic (like S3&K) than either of the adventure serieses. You want slowed down, play the mech stuff from SA2 or the hunting mission, or (oh goodness no!) the chaos (dun dun dun).
I still have and will continue to play Sonic Heroes, awsm game.
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:11 am
i liked it alot im stuck on the hang castle level any body got tips?
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:55 am
wink if u're stuck i can help but what team?and on what play stashon,nintendo game cube,other surprised
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:54 pm
I have the game! It's really fun heart ! But it get boring after awhile like most games.
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:38 pm
It was alright, definatly different than other Sonic games I've played, but switching between team members in fights just so you could beat the boss was a little aggravating. I think I prefer SA1 and 2 over it though because its fast passed and I liked the stories better. Sonic Shuffle I definatly prefer (mini-games that you never get bored with xd ).
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:05 pm
I think Samwise and Nuala have got to the nub of it for me in most parts. Soundtrack was fantastic. I liked the idea of team play, the level graphics are fun. But I have never liked grinding rails and, like Nuala, I object to being forced to use them, especially when the dratted things don't actually work properly!
I really don't like what's been done to the characters - Tails is still six? Geez, he's Peter Pan here!
And my personal bugbear: Tails' "I'm falling!" You're a flipping two-tailed fox / kitsune! You can fly!
I like playing it, but I am stuck and probably won't get all emeralds and actually finish the game. This is nothing new for me in the Sonic series, but it just seemed that this one was more buggy than the others. Having said that, at least I haven't targetted deep space instead of the Chaos replica *right in front of me* on Heroes. Yes, SA2, I'm looking at *you*!
Still, I don't feel half so daft being stuck on Heroes as I feel about being stuck on Animaniacs. *slinks back under a stone*
DW
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Warnersister Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:39 am
Warnersister I think Samwise and Nuala have got to the nub of it for me in most parts. Soundtrack was fantastic. I liked the idea of team play, the level graphics are fun. But I have never liked grinding rails and, like Nuala, I object to being forced to use them, especially when the dratted things don't actually work properly! I really don't like what's been done to the characters - Tails is still six? Geez, he's Peter Pan here! And my personal bugbear: Tails' "I'm falling!" You're a flipping two-tailed fox / kitsune! You can fly! I like playing it, but I am stuck and probably won't get all emeralds and actually finish the game. This is nothing new for me in the Sonic series, but it just seemed that this one was more buggy than the others. Having said that, at least I haven't targetted deep space instead of the Chaos replica *right in front of me* on Heroes. Yes, SA2, I'm looking at *you*! Still, I don't feel half so daft being stuck on Heroes as I feel about being stuck on Animaniacs. *slinks back under a stone* DW There's an animaniacs game?
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