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 Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:18 pm
So, I have decided that I need to actually get on my practice like fleas on dogs. Or like compassion on Kwan Yin. Anyway, point is, I started poking around the area, looking for a place I could go find a master, and do some proper sitting in a Zendo.
The problem is this: Anywhere I can go locally charges exhorbitant fees for the use of their Zendo and listening to the Dharma in a group session. The major local center requires one to come at least once a week, pay dues (which they do not specify on the website, and I have the sinking feeling I could not afford to save my life), do at least one retreat (five days, $200 even if you bring your own tent to their backyard, and $65 for a "monastery bowl set" which you thankfully get to keep) and do work for their publication/Zendo upkeep.
I cannot afford to join their retreat, let alone afford a due of any sort.
Is it right, then, that I be excluded from hearing the Dharma simply because I cannot afford the student robes?
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:05 am
From my understanding with Denko Osho at Pine Hill, you have to create this "karmic imbalance" in the form of a gift or donation, and it's paid back to you in the Dharma.
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Akanishi Makoto Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:18 am
I'm fine with gifting - I wasn't planning on going emptyhanded anyway, that's just plain rude - but telling me I MUST give you money, and go to an expensive retreat, and have certain robes and own certain dishes in order to hear the Dharma seems to go against the teachings of the Buddha himself, who did tell his followers on numerous occasions that NO ONE should be charged for the Dharma. If we wanted to give them something in return, they accept, but there should be no fees for it whatsoever.
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:42 am
ღஐღ
I straight-up disagree with any fees or attempt to disguise fees as "fixed donations," when it comes to religious instruction. I understand fees when it comes to retreats as in the West, nearly everything costs money, so centers may have to cover the cost of day-to-day living expenses - but that should be explained by any such center.
Having said that, no Dharma Center, no Temple, no Abbey, nor any Monastery should ever charge someone to study, discuss, or practice the Dharma. I feel that somehow violates Right Livelihood. The Buddha never charged for his lessons, he gave them out of compassion.
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:45 am
[ Jizo Bosatsu ] ღஐღI straight-up disagree with any fees or attempt to disguise fees as "fixed donations," when it comes to religious instruction. I understand fees when it comes to retreats as in the West, nearly everything costs money, so centers may have to cover the cost of day-to-day living expenses - but that should be explained by any such center.
Having said that, no Dharma Center, no Temple, no Abbey, nor any Monastery should ever charge someone to study, discuss, or practice the Dharma. I feel that somehow violates Right Livelihood. The Buddha never charged for his lessons, he gave them out of compassion. See, that was exactly my problem with this donation and membership fee thing - since when are we a club? I may have to just not hang with the Zendo kids until I have more money - til that time, I might just go with my husband to the Bhavana Society. They're tremendously free, albiet Theravadan. biggrin http://www.bhavanasociety.org/
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:26 pm
Unfortunately Zen is tightly tied in with giving a donation to recieve the Dharma - I don't agree with it either - for a denomination that was founded to strip away all of the "extra" practice in Buddhism, there seems to be quite a bit of extra stuff that's developed as local customs were adopted into the religion.
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Akanishi Makoto Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:41 pm
Akanishi Makoto Unfortunately Zen is tightly tied in with giving a donation to recieve the Dharma - I don't agree with it either - for a denomination that was founded to strip away all of the "extra" practice in Buddhism, there seems to be quite a bit of extra stuff that's developed as local customs were adopted into the religion. Like I said though, I don't mind donations - I was going to give what I can afford, in money or foodstuffs, and I planned on it entirely; after all, the teachers need some means of support - but giving me a forced, fixed "donation", a membership fee, and certain things I had to buy/wear to be considered a member of the community is more hurtful than helpful to me. That I should be excluded because I cannot afford a good student robe makes me feel like we're drifting back into castes again, and those of us without the ability to "give" what they ask are to be ignored.
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:09 pm
The costs would be rather unsettling for me as well. To the point that the only way I could seriously consider the idea of a monastic lifestyle..even for just a while... is as a retirement project or something... assuming fate permits.
It seems to me though, that the system would be greatly helped by adding a more charitable dimension to it. Perhaps have a person.. or many persons sponsor the newer arrivals. Then the arrivals can sponsor the next incoming crowd. Kind of a Social Satori Security program.
Would also be less wasteful to cycle robes and kits back from those that decide to leave for some reason or another. Hard to imagine people really wanting to dress like that all the time in the "real" world. Encourage detachment to materials and kindness... and all that.
But maybe there's something in the culture I don't quite get...? sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:22 pm
Kagerou Osajima The costs would be rather unsettling for me as well. To the point that the only way I could seriously consider the idea of a monastic lifestyle..even for just a while... is as a retirement project or something... assuming fate permits. It seems to me though, that the system would be greatly helped by adding a more charitable dimension to it. Perhaps have a person.. or many persons sponsor the newer arrivals. Then the arrivals can sponsor the next incoming crowd. Kind of a Social Satori Security program. Would also be less wasteful to cycle robes and kits back from those that decide to leave for some reason or another. Hard to imagine people really wanting to dress like that all the time in the "real" world. Encourage detachment to materials and kindness... and all that. But maybe there's something in the culture I don't quite get...? sweatdrop I'd go for that, it'd be of far more use to the whole of the sangha if we could make a system like that function. The problem is making it work in the current setting. And getting the initial startup stuff.
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:39 pm
Byaggha, I face the same problem as you do. I like in CT, in an area near NYC and there are Zen centers there..the only thing though is that they charge really big prices (I cannot think of another word) to attend (teachings), retreats, sessions etc...and theyre REALLY expensive. I dont mind making small donation like maybe around the 10's. Thats why I prefer going to Chinese monasteries better..In the Zendo places you will probably even have to pay extra just to breath too (Kidding) but yeah, the idea is that some of them are really expensive. In Chinese centers, they usually have programs for free but they do charge for classes such as Tai Chi and I think retreats (Which I can understand) but Dharma teachings shouldnt be given a price just to hear them..its almost like a business.
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Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:37 am
I go to a Sri Lanken temple in my area and learn the Darma from the monks for free. I occaisionally donate food to them to thank them for teaching me, but donations are not obligitory. If you're getting swindled by false teachers who charge for what Buddha gave to the world for free, perhaps you should seek another place to learn the Darma.
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Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:09 am
Questina I go to a Sri Lanken temple in my area and learn the Darma from the monks for free. I occaisionally donate food to them to thank them for teaching me, but donations are not obligitory. If you're getting swindled by false teachers who charge for what Buddha gave to the world for free, perhaps you should seek another place to learn the Darma. As I did mention, I would love to - but there isn't one locally. crying On the up side, I may be going to a Theravadan temple this summer with my husband. They work free. 3nodding I will take them food.
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:48 pm
I hope the temple that I want to go soon is free. I dont mind donating even if it is the very little I can contribute. The temple that I want to visit is a Chinese temple and it is open to the public. His Holiness Dalai Lama has even visited too. In fact the temple that I would like to visit is the headquarters (I cant come up with a better word for it) of BAUS (Buddhist Association of The United States) or I think they are co-founders of BAUS.
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