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 Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:10 pm
Because, by the sound of it, a lot of you get trouble from Bible thumpers for being vegetarian. My line of thought is that it's easier to quote scripture at these types of people than it is to tell them you don't believe in the bible.
First off, the Bible does condone eating meat.
Yes, it does. According to Genesis, humans have dominion over animals. You pretty much have to accept this. (Sorry, too lazy to find the exact quote.)
The bible specifically says that it's fine to eat meat in the Deuteronomy book, the same one that has the ten commandments:
"You may eat these animals: cattle, sheep, goats, deer, wild sheep, wild goats, or antelopes" (14:4-5)
"You may eat any kind of fish that has fins and scales" (14:9)
"You may eat any clean bird."(14:11)
But it's very specific about how to eat meat.
There's a big catch to this all.
"But no animals may be eaten unless they have divided hoofs and also chew the cud. You may not eat camels, rabbits, or badgers."(14:7)
"Do not eat pigs. They must be considered unclean; they have divided hoofs but do not chew the cud. Do not eat any of these animals or even touch their dead bodies." (14:8 )
"but anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales may not be eaten; it must be considered unclean." (14:10)
"But these are the kinds of birds you are not to eat: eagles, owls, hawks, falcons; buzzards, vultures, crows; ostriches; seagulls, storks, herons, pelicans, cormorants; hoo-poes; and bats." (14:12-18 )
"Do not eat any animal that dies a natural death...(stuff about selling it to foreigners) Do not cook a young sheep or goat in its mother's milk." (14:21)
"Do not eat anymeat with blood still in it." (Leviticus, 19:26) (also, most of Leviticus, 17 says don't eat blood)
What's this? This (and probably some more that I missed) is the basis of the Jewish law of kosher- something that Christianity ignores, because Christianity has the tendency to ignore select parts of the bible, while blowing other areas completely out of proportion. So much for "Do everything that I have commanded you; do not add anything to it or take anything from it." (12:32)
In that way, vegetarianism is more Bible-friendly than non-vegetarianism.
Nowhere have I found the Bible to say explicitly "the Lord your God hates people who do not eat meat", or "Stone him to death! He tried to lead you away from eating meat.", which is what it usually says when something's important. While the Bible says that you may eat meat, that you have the right to, it does not say that you must. It does forbid, though, eating pig meat, shrimp, lobster, crab, rare-ish steak (any meat that hasn't been drained of blood), and meat mixed with dairy (think cheeseburgers), or wearing pig leather. I challenge you to find a non-vegetarian, non-Jew who adheres to this.
zewl You also have to take into account that factory farming was nonexistant in Biblical times. Even if the Bible allows certain meats to be eaten (after the 'fall of man,' of course) it does not condone cruelty or neglect in the name of efficiency. A good man takes care of his animals, but wicked men are cruel to theirs.
- Proverbs 12:10Also, the future paradise which Christians expect to become part of is very clearly described as a vegetarian place (not only for humans, but for all creatures). The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
- Isaiah 11:6-9
Discuss:
- your experiences with religious organizations.
- your own religious beliefs in relation to animals, vegetarianism, etc.
- other means of combatting fanatics.
- did I miss anything important?
* No, I am not being completely serious, I just find it backwards that Christians would bug vegetarians about their eating habits, and am explaining why. More laws that God gave to his people are to be found in Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and to a lesser extent, Numbers. It makes for an interesting read. Unless stated otherwise, all quotes are taken from Deuteronomy. The Bible is my mom's Good News Bible, published 1976. Wording varies slightly from edition to edition.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:17 pm
It says, you MAY eat these animals, but what the bible says, they're not forcing you.. they're not saying, "If you eat animals, you will die." or go to hell or whatever. So, I think it's okay if you don't eat the animals. I don't know. Christianity isn't my religion. I'm a buddhist. It's one reason why I'm a vegeterian, but it's not the main reason why. I love animals like I love humans. I think we're equal. in Buddhism, it tells you that all animals are equal.. and I don't really exactly remember exactly, WHY buddhists don't eat meat, but here's a link that could probably help. http://quietmountain.org/dharmacenters/buddhadendo/vege.htmNot all Buddhist are vegeterians, it's your choice whether you want to be one or not.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:59 pm
The Bibles says what kinds of meat you can eat, sure, but no where does it say, "You must eat meat." God doesn't hate me for not eating meat! I believe that He would appreciate my love for his creations, rather.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:45 pm
Wow this is very interesting. I just finished reading Genesis 1:29.
"Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so."
- Genesis 1:29
Kind of confusing. Cause this makes it sound like wew are suppose to be Vegans and what you said made it sound like we can eat meat, but only some.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:14 pm
Religion and vegetarianism have never really been an issue for me. If people object to my diets, it's usually because they don't see the point, or think I can't get enough nutrients.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:35 pm
Me, I'm Wiccan. I find that this religion, which I found about eight months ago (I've been vegetarian for almost two years), ties in nicely with vegetarianism. One of the main cornerstones of Wicca is "Harm none." Doesn't that include animals? However, I've found that not many of the other Wiccans I know are vegetarian.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:14 pm
[.The Emo Moo.] Wow this is very interesting. I just finished reading Genesis 1:29.
"Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so."
- Genesis 1:29
Kind of confusing. Cause this makes it sound like wew are suppose to be Vegans and what you said made it sound like we can eat meat, but only some.
Beat me to it. xd
Interestingly enough, in the Garden of Eden AKA paradise, Adam and Eve were indeed vegans. It was only when thrown out of paradise that the practice of eating the very animals which Adam himself had named began.
~ And no, I'm not Christian, or any religion even remotely near Christianity. ~
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:42 pm
The Bible does a mad job of contradicting itself, I noticed.
At one point, God says that when a man dies leaving a widow but no children, his brother is to marry her to give him an heir. A man in.... Exodus I think? (The husband of Rachel and Leah, anyway) marries two sisters, and there's nothing bad said about it. But then later on, when it goes on to describe all the people you shouldn't have sex with, your brother's wife is off limits, as is the sister of your wife.
Yeah, I am what Douglas Adams called "radical atheist", meaning that I am not just agnostic and calling it something else.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:05 pm
You have to be careful when reffering to the Bible, alot of it was in a culture where you can't cook meat properly. O:
If God is almighty then you'd think he'd know which ones were more safe. I've studied foods in a Christian school before and have discovered that alot of the meats they mention not to eat in the Bible carry more harmful sicknesses than the ones they tell you can eat. Makes sense no? Now that we are able to cook things at much higher heat levels, which in bible times they weren't able to, it cuts down on the bacteria, fungus, and viruses contained in the meat making alot more of it safe, so I believe those verses in the Bible are more reffering to the culture of the time, but either way the Bible did do a pretty good job in discribing to His people what no to eat.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:11 pm
Afflaetus The Bible does a mad job of contradicting itself, I noticed.
At one point, God says that when a man dies leaving a widow but no children, his brother is to marry her to give him an heir. A man in.... Exodus I think? (The husband of Rachel and Leah, anyway) marries two sisters, and there's nothing bad said about it. But then later on, when it goes on to describe all the people you shouldn't have sex with, your brother's wife is off limits, as is the sister of your wife.
Yeah, I am what Douglas Adams called "radical atheist", meaning that I am not just agnostic and calling it something else. Well his brother would be no more than right? So she wouldn't be his brothers wife anymore. Yeah, you might want to check out this one book, it's caleld the 1001 Condradictions of the Bible or something like that, either way alot of it can be solved by logic. I remember reading in the Bible that this guy died by hanging himself and then some where else in the Bible it says he feel to his death, odd no? When you look at where he lived though, it was a very dry place with alot of cliffs and weak trees, so he could of hung himself and then the branch could of broke, but since back then they didn't know anything about people dead they couldn't have really known when he died, and exspecially if it was really sudden, but see what I mean? I'm no Christian or anything, but I still think the Bible is very interesting.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:04 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:26 pm
That's interesting. I should speed up my re-reading of the bible. I'm gonna quote you in my first post, now.
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:43 pm
Afflaetus That's interesting. I should speed up my re-reading of the bible. I'm gonna quote you in my first post, now. I go to a Christian school, can't avoid it. D:
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:45 pm
I think the most compelling argument is that the bible states clearly, and everyone has heard of the commandment "Thou shall not kill" it's not called 'Thou shall not kill human beings (except in texas)'
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:22 pm
wolfgang I think the most compelling argument is that the bible states clearly, and everyone has heard of the commandment "Thou shall not kill" it's not called 'Thou shall not kill human beings (except in texas)'
The Bible is all for killing. Let me give you a few examples:
"Kill him! Be the first to stone him, and then let everyone else stone him too. Stone him to death! He tried to lead you away from the Lord your God, who rescued you from Egypt, where you were all slaves."(13:9-10)
"...you may hear that some worthless men of your nation have misled the people of their town to worship gods that you have never worshipped before. If you hear such a rumour, investigate it thoroughly; and if it is true that this evil thing did happen, then kill all the people in that town and all their cattle too. Destroy that town completely." (13:12-15)
"In such cases show no mercy (false accusations); the punishment is to be a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, and a foot for a foot." (19:21)
"Then, when the Lord your God lets you capture the city (war), kill every man in it." (20:13)
"Suppose a man has a son who is stubborn and rebellious, even though they punish him. His parents are to take him before the leaders of the town where he lives and make him stand trial...Then the men of the city are to stone him to death, and so you will get rid of this evil..." (21:18-21)
"But if the charge is true and there is no proof that the girl was a virgin (before she was married), then they are to take her out to the entrance of her father's house, where the men of her city are to stone her to death..." (22:20-21)
"Whoever kidnaps a fellow Israelite and makes him his slave or sells him into slavery is to be put to death..." (24:7)
And lots more. This really isn't such a pacifist religion.
(Again, Deuteronomy unless stated otherwise)
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![[.The Emo Moo.]'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/76/80/37bf4ba6c8076_flip.png?t=1209062894_6.00_11)
