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For this topic I'm just hoping we can discuss how the Rise of Organizations like Pride and UFC have contributed to making weaker fighters, but stronger athletes.

Before Pride and UFC came around there was Vale Tudo. Vale Tudo is much different from the Modern NHB and the Vale tudo we know. Vale Tudo rules back then were the most basic rules you could actually have in a controlled enviroment, no biting and not fishhooking (not sure about that one). Because of these few rules, fighters would have to learn to fight and adapt their styles to avoid being hurt badly. For instance, the modern stance we see would not have been used when within range for shots to the groin were legal, and said stances were too open. Also, there were no rounds, and no stops unless one tapped, was ko'd, or verbally quit/towel. So they would have to better pace themselves and create new strategies to make sure they could stay the whole fight. With all of these conditions it created the best fighters we have seen. Rickson being the example. His Record is 400-0-0. I myself do not believe he has NO loses. But had he lost, it would be posted somewhere, so I'm not going to argue with it.

The Modern fighters do not have those lack of rules Vale Tudo fighters had. The modern fighters now are more of a sport rather than the Brutal fights that Vale Tudo was. Now, Vale tudo is more subdued, without the headbutts, groin shots, and other more brutal .. actions allowed previously. Looking at modern "Vale Tudo" we can see it is very tame. Yet the action is probably better because the Fighters are much better athletes then previous fighters. They now have breaks were and rounds were they can condition themselves to fight for point wins. This itself can make for worse fighters and better athletes.
Example: Tito Ortiz. His usual tactic of winning is just Lay n Pray. If there were no judges and refs how would this tactic even be considered? Considering it relies more on a fight going the distance and winning points, it would have been entirely ineffective in true Vale Tudo fights.
However. Better Athletes can lead to more exciting fights. An Example being Sakuraba. He himself is probably the best NHB fighter ever. While Rickson is probably the best Vale Tudo fighter ever. If either of these were to fight each other in their respective rule sets the fight would probably go to whoever is fighting under their rules. The transition wouldn't be so much of a physical one, but a mental one. How many fighters in Pride/ufc would go into a fight knowing that they could be kicked in the nuts or even headbutted while on the ground? and Vice Versa. They would be too use to their own rules. Anyway, I don't think that old Vale Tudo will make a come-back with the Pride and UFC around. But I do think that it will always be around, as an underground sport as it's always been.

-Mirko

P.S. Vale Tudo literally means anything goes, and No-Holds Barred means exactly the same thing.

Fouls:
Butting with the head.
Eye gouging of any kind.
Biting.
Hair pulling.
Fish hooking.
Groin attacks of any kind.
Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
Small joint manipulation.
Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
Grabbing the clavicle.
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
Stomping a grounded opponent.
Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
Spitting at an opponent.
Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
Holding the ropes or the fence.
Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
Interference by the corner.
Throwing in the towel during competition.

here are todays rules for UFC, which i got of their official site, so stop acting like u kno everything.

U idiot, NHB means no holds barred as in nothing holding u back... as in you can do wut u want. And up untill recently, all of those things (small joint manipulation, groin attacks, hair pulling) were legal. But do to the US judicial system (damn them). So in fact, (up until recently) NHB and Vale Tudo were exactly the same thing.

I enjoyed reading your post Mirko. Very insightful. Although my mind hasnt really been present in competition NHB, i still found this interesting.

And Angel, I can say without a doubt that you wont be in the guild.

Angel_Abaddon:

If I see you disrespecting a guild member like that again I will be hardcore banning the ******** out of your arse.

You may have been voted in but you can be banned just as easily.

Don't the Brazilians still retain some of the old lack of restrictions that original Vale Tudo held? I remember seeing a clip where Wanderlei Silva was head butting and elbowing in a Brazilian Vale Tudo match.

Vale Tudo hasn't completely died out, but it is slowly dieing and going way underground. It was banned in Brazil for a while, after the GJJ vs Luta Livre thing. Something like there was so much build up for the match that it got nationaly televised and it ended up being really bloody. GJJ won that one 3-0 though. That was also the start of the decline of Luta Livre's popularity.