BE
If you're not gonna read the whole thing,
don't bother replying
Because some of you have comprehension problems, let me sum this up for you: I AM NOT SAYING AMERICAN CARTOONS ARE BETTER THAN JAPANESE CARTOONS. I am arguing that NEITHER are better, OR worse. So damn you, READ.
STOP MAKING ME ADD THESE THINGS! This is not a topic of opinion, this is a topic of FACT. Do not waste our time by posting "It's all a matter of opinion" -- thank you!
The whole reason I wrote this is because I am sick and tired of people bashing American animation in this forum.
Alright, every single "debate" I see with the thousands of kids in these "American cartoon" debates are festering with stupidity. People rush in, screaming limited examples of American cartoons, and claim anime is it's superior.
Are any of you aware how much CRAP is filtered for us? We get the good stuff over here in the US (and a small chunk of the bad) because there is a TON of bad anime over in Japan.
But you're all (not all, but damnit, I'm making a point!) so narrow-minded, you refuse to give American cartoons credit where they're due, and even the time of day, because "LOLZ TEH ANEYMAY IS SUPERIORR!!!@~~!!11!"
Sure. I enjoy anime every now and again. I loved Cowboy Bebop - back when I watched it in 1998. I enjoyed Sailor Moon - back in 1995. I adored Tenchi Muyo - back in 1997. Welcome to 2004, with people screaming their heads off over anime that's been released in Japan for god knows how many years.
Regardless, I'm tired of people blabbing about how "realistic" anime is over American cartoons. Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Both are realistic in their own fashion, sure. American cartoons tend to take an entire style and turn them into characters - anime seems to fit the same cookie cutter, and thus easily produced route, to make more 'human' looking characters.
However, some profess that anime is "anatomically correct". What? No? For the majority, if anime characters were imported into the real world, they would either DIE from lack of space for internal organs, suffocate from lack of ability to breath from their tiny noses and mouths, go blind, because everything would fly into the hardboiled egg eyes, and have horrible muscle and bone problems due to their structure. So how is this real? Just because it has legs and arms doesn't make it 'real'.
Now, I'm also NOT saying American cartoons are better than anime. However, no one is giving American cartoons a chance. You claim that anime has more detail, and is better coloured, and wow it's super smooth. But the whole thing? Generally not. Very few anime (I mean, it's a day to day cartoon) has choppy movement, which is offset by very nicely done fluid portions. (Kenshin is an excellent example of this).
But what about Looney Tunes? Sure -- they don't have 'realistic humans' in it, but the animation quality is SUPERB. The work and effort put into each frame of fluid, well-done animation is astounding. But you just shrug it off because 'it's for kids'. You don't even give it a chance, even though Looney Tunes was intended for an older audience. In fact, they had animators who branched off from Disney, because Disney wouldn't allow them to get away with some of the cruder, more adult jokes they wanted to.
And how about that? Sure, Disney has been milking it's previous beautifully animated feature films by making crappy sequels, but prior, how about gorgeous? The Lion King was beautiful. Aladdin was so amazing. Beauty and the Beast was spectacular. The effort and skill put into these is completely blown off by anime fans, because they think it's 'not detailed' - 'not human' - 'not kawaii kewl zomg' - 'no catgirls!' - 'no tentacle rape!' - 'it's for kids!' - etc.
For christ's sake, give American cartoons a chance. They're fantastic. They're EVERY bit as good as anime, and no one's giving them the due credit, or respect they deserve. I personally would rather watch some Warner Bros. cartoons, than watch Wolf's Rain or Yu-Gi-Oh.
Now, I've been seeing a lot of arguements cropping up about the same few issues, so I'll grab them now and beat them with a bat.
The first arguement I'm seeing is "anime has more themes and varies more in it's plotlines". Ridiculously untrue. Now, I'm not saying that all anime is linear, and all anime adheres the same theme -- but look at the genres. Just like in American cartoons, you have comedy, horror, drama, romance, etc. While sure, it has different plotlines, it fits under the basic genre. Magical girl anime is everywhere - medeival sorcery anime is everywhere - big a** guys beating on each other anime is everywhere - and this is NOT a bad thing. But anime is not magically somehow more diverse than American cartoons just because YOU haven't seen them. You're so busy hating on American cartoons that you probably wouldn't even consider going to an animation festival like Spike and Mike's and such to see what kind of real cartoons are out there.
Just because what's aired on TV doesn't suit your 'omg theme' bit, don't forget -- most of the anime YOU see isn't always neccessarily aired on TV. The animations you see on TV here in the US are filtered and been through the censorship to make them viewable for all ages. You won't have sex and violence on public television, because it's not appropriate when ANYONE can get to it. But pick up a DVD, or rent a movie and you can see some amazing varience when it comes to American animation. You have "in the past" plots, "save the world", "medieval", "magical girls kinda", "robots", etc etc. Every plotline you see in anime has been thought up and most likely done by their American counterparts. Not better, but most likely done.
"Anime's artwork is more different and detailed than american animation"
Wrong again. Anime has it's ups and downs, just like American cartoons. Would you rightfully compare Cowboy Bebop to Southpark? Naruto to Gary the Rat? No - because they're not comparable in terms of animation quality. But, you COULD put a very good anime on the scale with the Simpsons, Futurama or Family Guy. Why? Because of the fluidity of the American animation versus the anime. You have to take into consideration that American animation -generally- is almost always moving somehow. Recently, the newer shows have been straying and going for the headshots popular in anime, but the older shows still have strong roots in constant movement.
To me, it takes more work and effort, and is far more impressive to have a character who moves, walks and talks like a normal human constantly, than a super-pretty still shot of a character talking for 5 minutes. The Simpsons may look basic, but the animation going on in that show is supurb.
"Anime is for all age ranges! American cartoons are only for kids!"
To sum this up simply: Adult Swim anyone? It's not just all anime. Sealab 2021, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Venture Bros. -- all NOT for kids. Venture Bros. is probably one of my favourites, due to the hilarious dialogue and amazing plotline.
"But BE!" you cry, "Anime tackles super serious issues like society and hunger and politics and wai wai kawaii sugoi!".
Just because anime deals with these situations outright doesn't mean American animation doesn't. Family Guy has dealt with: Drug abuse, trying to make it on your own, pornography, lying, libel and slander, fitting in, family issues, violence, politics, commentary on society, death, birth, cults, etc. Just because we can laugh at it doesn't mean it's not thought provoking. The Simpsons generally has a moral at the end of each show, so while we're laughing our asses off, we can still say "making someone miserable/stealing/cheating on tests is BAD!". So while anime fans (not all, but the hardcore annoying ones) sit and b***h about how anime discusses serious issues -- just because American cartoons don't crap out an elephant of issues and make it sit on your lap, doesn't mean that elephant isn't wandering around somewhere. You have to LOOK for Mr. Elephant - he's not going to have a trail of peanuts leading to you. If you're so oblivious to not notice it, it's not our fault.
And yea, I know this is the anime forum. I enjoy anime to a degree. I think some of it's great (I'm a closet Tenchi Muyo fan) - but anime is not the end-all to animation in it's superiority. So BLEH.
EDIT: It's FINE if you LIKE anime more than American animation. I'm not saying "ZOMG LOVE AMERICAN ANIMATION NOOOOOW!". I'm saying don't insult it, because it deserves far more credit than it's getting.
And please don't bother posting if you're going to reply with someone so idiotic as "anime is sooo much better, you're stupid zomg". Please. It hurts smart people's braincells to see so much stupidity.
ANOTHER EDIT: If you're going to run here and claim superiority and inferiority, read a long discussed topic of how Japanese Animation = Terrible - it gives you the basic understanding of how the two contrast, and how some shows that are getting glorious praise are nothing more than pretty still shots and flapping, teethless mouths.
Ok. Adding this now. Because there's probably 20 pages of simply replies stating this crap:
THIS TOPIC IS NOT A WASTE OF TIME. I have stated time and time again, there's maybe a hundred close-minded idiots who prance around here, don't read and go "zomg lol i liek aneemay! ur stupid!" (Yes, I've recieved both posts and PMs like that, including ones like "rot u stupid b***h" and soforth, so on) - and for those one hundred morons, there's one person who goes "Oh, that makes sense."
So this topic has changed minds, or at least opened them. In close to now 1000 posts, I've recieved PMs, and posts stating that they never thought about it that way and they're ashamed they believed so. While they may continue to enjoy anime (because this thread is not denouncing anime, the topic merely states that both forms of animation are EQUAL to one another in terms of technical aspects) they appreciate American animation for the quality and give it the respect it deserves.
So STFU about "omg waste of your time wah wah". Thanks.
EDIT BAJILLION AND ONE: I DO read all the replies in this thread, however I don't reply to every single one. If you're afraid I've missed your post, I haven't. Either someone else has replied, or there's nothing really to reply to.
don't bother replying
Because some of you have comprehension problems, let me sum this up for you: I AM NOT SAYING AMERICAN CARTOONS ARE BETTER THAN JAPANESE CARTOONS. I am arguing that NEITHER are better, OR worse. So damn you, READ.
STOP MAKING ME ADD THESE THINGS! This is not a topic of opinion, this is a topic of FACT. Do not waste our time by posting "It's all a matter of opinion" -- thank you!
The whole reason I wrote this is because I am sick and tired of people bashing American animation in this forum.
Alright, every single "debate" I see with the thousands of kids in these "American cartoon" debates are festering with stupidity. People rush in, screaming limited examples of American cartoons, and claim anime is it's superior.
Are any of you aware how much CRAP is filtered for us? We get the good stuff over here in the US (and a small chunk of the bad) because there is a TON of bad anime over in Japan.
But you're all (not all, but damnit, I'm making a point!) so narrow-minded, you refuse to give American cartoons credit where they're due, and even the time of day, because "LOLZ TEH ANEYMAY IS SUPERIORR!!!@~~!!11!"
Sure. I enjoy anime every now and again. I loved Cowboy Bebop - back when I watched it in 1998. I enjoyed Sailor Moon - back in 1995. I adored Tenchi Muyo - back in 1997. Welcome to 2004, with people screaming their heads off over anime that's been released in Japan for god knows how many years.
Regardless, I'm tired of people blabbing about how "realistic" anime is over American cartoons. Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Both are realistic in their own fashion, sure. American cartoons tend to take an entire style and turn them into characters - anime seems to fit the same cookie cutter, and thus easily produced route, to make more 'human' looking characters.
However, some profess that anime is "anatomically correct". What? No? For the majority, if anime characters were imported into the real world, they would either DIE from lack of space for internal organs, suffocate from lack of ability to breath from their tiny noses and mouths, go blind, because everything would fly into the hardboiled egg eyes, and have horrible muscle and bone problems due to their structure. So how is this real? Just because it has legs and arms doesn't make it 'real'.
Now, I'm also NOT saying American cartoons are better than anime. However, no one is giving American cartoons a chance. You claim that anime has more detail, and is better coloured, and wow it's super smooth. But the whole thing? Generally not. Very few anime (I mean, it's a day to day cartoon) has choppy movement, which is offset by very nicely done fluid portions. (Kenshin is an excellent example of this).
But what about Looney Tunes? Sure -- they don't have 'realistic humans' in it, but the animation quality is SUPERB. The work and effort put into each frame of fluid, well-done animation is astounding. But you just shrug it off because 'it's for kids'. You don't even give it a chance, even though Looney Tunes was intended for an older audience. In fact, they had animators who branched off from Disney, because Disney wouldn't allow them to get away with some of the cruder, more adult jokes they wanted to.
And how about that? Sure, Disney has been milking it's previous beautifully animated feature films by making crappy sequels, but prior, how about gorgeous? The Lion King was beautiful. Aladdin was so amazing. Beauty and the Beast was spectacular. The effort and skill put into these is completely blown off by anime fans, because they think it's 'not detailed' - 'not human' - 'not kawaii kewl zomg' - 'no catgirls!' - 'no tentacle rape!' - 'it's for kids!' - etc.
For christ's sake, give American cartoons a chance. They're fantastic. They're EVERY bit as good as anime, and no one's giving them the due credit, or respect they deserve. I personally would rather watch some Warner Bros. cartoons, than watch Wolf's Rain or Yu-Gi-Oh.
Now, I've been seeing a lot of arguements cropping up about the same few issues, so I'll grab them now and beat them with a bat.
The first arguement I'm seeing is "anime has more themes and varies more in it's plotlines". Ridiculously untrue. Now, I'm not saying that all anime is linear, and all anime adheres the same theme -- but look at the genres. Just like in American cartoons, you have comedy, horror, drama, romance, etc. While sure, it has different plotlines, it fits under the basic genre. Magical girl anime is everywhere - medeival sorcery anime is everywhere - big a** guys beating on each other anime is everywhere - and this is NOT a bad thing. But anime is not magically somehow more diverse than American cartoons just because YOU haven't seen them. You're so busy hating on American cartoons that you probably wouldn't even consider going to an animation festival like Spike and Mike's and such to see what kind of real cartoons are out there.
Just because what's aired on TV doesn't suit your 'omg theme' bit, don't forget -- most of the anime YOU see isn't always neccessarily aired on TV. The animations you see on TV here in the US are filtered and been through the censorship to make them viewable for all ages. You won't have sex and violence on public television, because it's not appropriate when ANYONE can get to it. But pick up a DVD, or rent a movie and you can see some amazing varience when it comes to American animation. You have "in the past" plots, "save the world", "medieval", "magical girls kinda", "robots", etc etc. Every plotline you see in anime has been thought up and most likely done by their American counterparts. Not better, but most likely done.
"Anime's artwork is more different and detailed than american animation"
Wrong again. Anime has it's ups and downs, just like American cartoons. Would you rightfully compare Cowboy Bebop to Southpark? Naruto to Gary the Rat? No - because they're not comparable in terms of animation quality. But, you COULD put a very good anime on the scale with the Simpsons, Futurama or Family Guy. Why? Because of the fluidity of the American animation versus the anime. You have to take into consideration that American animation -generally- is almost always moving somehow. Recently, the newer shows have been straying and going for the headshots popular in anime, but the older shows still have strong roots in constant movement.
To me, it takes more work and effort, and is far more impressive to have a character who moves, walks and talks like a normal human constantly, than a super-pretty still shot of a character talking for 5 minutes. The Simpsons may look basic, but the animation going on in that show is supurb.
"Anime is for all age ranges! American cartoons are only for kids!"
To sum this up simply: Adult Swim anyone? It's not just all anime. Sealab 2021, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Venture Bros. -- all NOT for kids. Venture Bros. is probably one of my favourites, due to the hilarious dialogue and amazing plotline.
"But BE!" you cry, "Anime tackles super serious issues like society and hunger and politics and wai wai kawaii sugoi!".
Just because anime deals with these situations outright doesn't mean American animation doesn't. Family Guy has dealt with: Drug abuse, trying to make it on your own, pornography, lying, libel and slander, fitting in, family issues, violence, politics, commentary on society, death, birth, cults, etc. Just because we can laugh at it doesn't mean it's not thought provoking. The Simpsons generally has a moral at the end of each show, so while we're laughing our asses off, we can still say "making someone miserable/stealing/cheating on tests is BAD!". So while anime fans (not all, but the hardcore annoying ones) sit and b***h about how anime discusses serious issues -- just because American cartoons don't crap out an elephant of issues and make it sit on your lap, doesn't mean that elephant isn't wandering around somewhere. You have to LOOK for Mr. Elephant - he's not going to have a trail of peanuts leading to you. If you're so oblivious to not notice it, it's not our fault.
And yea, I know this is the anime forum. I enjoy anime to a degree. I think some of it's great (I'm a closet Tenchi Muyo fan) - but anime is not the end-all to animation in it's superiority. So BLEH.
EDIT: It's FINE if you LIKE anime more than American animation. I'm not saying "ZOMG LOVE AMERICAN ANIMATION NOOOOOW!". I'm saying don't insult it, because it deserves far more credit than it's getting.
And please don't bother posting if you're going to reply with someone so idiotic as "anime is sooo much better, you're stupid zomg". Please. It hurts smart people's braincells to see so much stupidity.
ANOTHER EDIT: If you're going to run here and claim superiority and inferiority, read a long discussed topic of how Japanese Animation = Terrible - it gives you the basic understanding of how the two contrast, and how some shows that are getting glorious praise are nothing more than pretty still shots and flapping, teethless mouths.
Ok. Adding this now. Because there's probably 20 pages of simply replies stating this crap:
THIS TOPIC IS NOT A WASTE OF TIME. I have stated time and time again, there's maybe a hundred close-minded idiots who prance around here, don't read and go "zomg lol i liek aneemay! ur stupid!" (Yes, I've recieved both posts and PMs like that, including ones like "rot u stupid b***h" and soforth, so on) - and for those one hundred morons, there's one person who goes "Oh, that makes sense."
So this topic has changed minds, or at least opened them. In close to now 1000 posts, I've recieved PMs, and posts stating that they never thought about it that way and they're ashamed they believed so. While they may continue to enjoy anime (because this thread is not denouncing anime, the topic merely states that both forms of animation are EQUAL to one another in terms of technical aspects) they appreciate American animation for the quality and give it the respect it deserves.
So STFU about "omg waste of your time wah wah". Thanks.
EDIT BAJILLION AND ONE: I DO read all the replies in this thread, however I don't reply to every single one. If you're afraid I've missed your post, I haven't. Either someone else has replied, or there's nothing really to reply to.
