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 Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:00 am
Well, in science we learn that things need equilibrium, when something cold is next to something hot, they try and become even temperatures, and other such things. If you look at other aspects of the world you see other types of things trying to attain equilibrium. Now, couldn't karma be forces of good and evil trying to reach equiliubrium? It seems as though that is how the world works and that would not be so crazy.
So lets say equilbrium of right and wrong is 0. Something bad happens to you, you go to -5, so to reach equilibrium you must get +5, and vice versa if something good happens to you. Now when you do something bad you get positive karma, because it is usually something good for you, so karma must reach equilibrium by giving something bad to you, -5. Does this make sense, basically a more scientific way to explain karma?
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:36 am
That's an interesting take on karma, and it does make sense. blaugh
I tend to explain karma myself as kind of the "human factor" in how things turn out in life. What makes karma "good" or "bad" depends mostly on the intentions of the person acting. (Though I think karma is really neutral, kind of like your equilibrium, there. Just we sentient beings like to judge things one way or another.)
I've used Global Warming as a of measure of the karma on a large scale... which seems to annoy people thoroughly. Of course, there are natural forces at work... planet has always moved in and out of weather patterns... but even the tiny "human factor" has built up over time to make a big difference in the way life is able to adjust to the changes, and in the quality of air and water.
Of course... I could be crazy too...
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:35 pm
The thing with karma is that there is no good karma, karma in essense is like points against you reaching enlightenment, the good actions one does removes karma, so think of it like a demerit system lol
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:10 pm
David Carradine The thing with karma is that there is no good karma, karma in essense is like points against you reaching enlightenment, the good actions one does removes karma, so think of it like a demerit system lol Well, I feel that karma isn't a good thing or bad thing, just something you have in samsara, in a sense of a buddhist it is a bad thing, but in the sense of another person it can be both (if they believed in it) for example a -5 may be bad for a non-buddhist, but it is just a type of action, just like cold is not bad, but can be considered bad. So I don't think of negative as bad, just a different type of karma. (which people interpret as bad)
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Akanishi Makoto Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:19 pm
Karma is neither good nor bad. It just is.
Remember that what we see our Karma as is what it is labelled. And remember that what we percieve as good or bad is wrong, as are our perceptions on right and wrong.
All of our actions are like ripples in a pool - each arising, existing, and passing onto the next ripple. We recieve what we put into the pool - good merit for good deeds and vice versa - but to see it as "good" is to have an attachment to the preferred versus the non-preferred.
So yes, you can say "good" or "bad" Karma, if that's how you see it. How you see it, however, is the problem.
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:53 pm
Having another thought on the wording to this...
I think that maybe it would be better to think of karma as a methaphor rather than an exsiting force. As human nature is usually a metaphor for all things relating to humanity... all of which we tend to consider good and evil. In this way, we wouldn't be so tempted to judge karma as if it were a reality of nature any more than good and evil are a reality of nature.
Maybe?
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:48 pm
Kagerou Osajima Having another thought on the wording to this... I think that maybe it would be better to think of karma as a methaphor rather than an exsiting force. As human nature is usually a metaphor for all things relating to humanity... all of which we tend to consider good and evil. In this way, we wouldn't be so tempted to judge karma as if it were a reality of nature any more than good and evil are a reality of nature. Maybe? I still tend to think of karma in terms of cause-and-effect. I think the idea has been weighed down in the West with a lot of metaphysics and pop-cultural warping, which has turned the very real and observable phenomenon of causal forces to be reduced to something spooky. I usually keep Newton's third law of motion in mind: Every action has a re-action. (This is the abridged version.) Karma, at least in the Buddhist sense, has nothing to do with good, evil, or any other mental formations. Karma is the bare essential nature of everything has a cause and everything creates and effect. This is an idea that plugs directly into dependent origination and emptiness. I think of it as being something very practical and quantifiable.
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:22 pm
Hm... the cause and effect thing makes sense.
I suppose in the context I usually hear about karma, it's only really applied to sentient beings. Since such beings have some control over their action.... as oppose to being rolled around like rocks.
...then again, the "natural" vibrations that make rocks roll around made sentient beings....
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:13 pm
Kagerou Osajima Hm... the cause and effect thing makes sense. I suppose in the context I usually hear about karma, it's only really applied to sentient beings. Since such beings have some control over their action.... as oppose to being rolled around like rocks. ...then again, the "natural" vibrations that make rocks roll around made sentient beings.... That's very true, which is where you can start to get into the metaphysical applications of the idea of karma. I know that a lot of people are very wrapped up in the metaphysics as it seems like something very mystical and exotic, but I think that if one is really going to get it and to see why it's of such emphasis in Buddhism that one needs to see it as a very real and practical thing. There's nothing wrong with the metaphysical applications. I don't mean to condemn them. That would be silly of me, considering that I do believe in rebirth. I just mean that it really helps to understand the practicality of karma before or alongside an understanding of it metaphysically.
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:48 pm
Jizo Bosatsu That's very true, which is where you can start to get into the metaphysical applications of the idea of karma. I know that a lot of people are very wrapped up in the metaphysics as it seems like something very mystical and exotic, but I think that if one is really going to get it and to see why it's of such emphasis in Buddhism that one needs to see it as a very real and practical thing. There's nothing wrong with the metaphysical applications. I don't mean to condemn them. That would be silly of me, considering that I do believe in rebirth. I just mean that it really helps to understand the practicality of karma before or alongside an understanding of it metaphysically. Practical is always nice to start with, yes. For rebirth, I've always kind of associated it with the law of Conservation of Energy. Ya know.. the "energy can be converted from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed" thing. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:03 pm
Kagerou Osajima For rebirth, I've always kind of associated it with the law of Conservation of Energy. Ya know.. the "energy can be converted from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed" thing. 3nodding I really like the idea of explaining rebirth in terms of science that we understand from the basics we learn in school. It makes the idea much easier to grasp. biggrin
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:58 am
What you are saying makes perfect sense and is a very interesting take on karma I have never considered before. I also really like Kagerou Osajima's take on rebirth. I find it rather comforting to relate these things to what we learn in school. It just makes it a bit easier to comprehend. Well, that's what I think.
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:02 pm
[ Jizo Bosatsu ] Kagerou Osajima Having another thought on the wording to this... I think that maybe it would be better to think of karma as a methaphor rather than an exsiting force. As human nature is usually a metaphor for all things relating to humanity... all of which we tend to consider good and evil. In this way, we wouldn't be so tempted to judge karma as if it were a reality of nature any more than good and evil are a reality of nature. Maybe? I still tend to think of karma in terms of cause-and-effect. I think the idea has been weighed down in the West with a lot of metaphysics and pop-cultural warping, which has turned the very real and observable phenomenon of causal forces to be reduced to something spooky. I usually keep Newton's third law of motion in mind: Every action has a re-action. (This is the abridged version.) Karma, at least in the Buddhist sense, has nothing to do with good, evil, or any other mental formations. Karma is the bare essential nature of everything has a cause and everything creates and effect. This is an idea that plugs directly into dependent origination and emptiness. I think of it as being something very practical and quantifiable.
I also apply the Wiccan Threefold Law to my Buddhist/Wiccan mishmash of a religion, which is basically the same as Newton's 3rd Law, and Karma in general. From what I've seen, every religion has karma in some form.
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:17 pm
Bogwai, I completely agree with you. This is the struggle between Good and Evil that people speak of in the old tales. That is why both exist. It is a constant battle between the two, both trying to win, that always ends up with an equilibreum.
The Dark is Rising Sequence is a good series to read if you wish to understand this further.
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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:41 pm
Mizu Otaku Monkey Bogwai, I completely agree with you. This is the struggle between Good and Evil that people speak of in the old tales. That is why both exist. It is a constant battle between the two, both trying to win, that always ends up with an equilibreum.
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