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 Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:44 am
 Current suggestions
♦ Removing the one Raevan per person rule. (should I still cap how many Raevans a person should have? Currently thinking maybe 5...?)
♦ RP no longer required/more lax.
♦ Implement a Rapid Growth system via RLC. (subject to artist availability)
♦ You can still grow your Raevans for free via RP fulfillment. RP system to be revamped to be more systemized instead of abstract. (as it currently stands)
♦ RLC Auctions on Deviantart? (like an adoptable) But don't worry the Lab will still be based on Gaia.
♦ (optional) Tipping the artist for art? Even if you fulfilled your RP requirements. It would still be very nice to tip the artist. Again, this is optional.
♦ I will still try to change it so that it won't affect the current owners much. Please let me know what you think and if you have other ideas of your own that you wish to suggest!
Extra feedback!!
♦ Raevans doesn't need Guardians if they're not assimilated into the IC world.
♦ Vice versa, Raevans still need Guardians for RP purposes.
♦ Your current Guardian does not need to be the Guardian of second or third Raevans. You can use another Original Character (like a sibling, a friend, etc, even a completely new character unrelated to your current Guardian, it should be fine)
♦ Raevans at the Valsaros stage qualifies as a Guardian.
♦ Additional Raevans only if certain requirements are fulfilled. (ie: First Raevan is a Sigel, etc)
♦ Balancing between the RP points system with Rapid Growth System with RLC.
♦ Points system pooling/attached to user instead of attached to a specific Raevan.
♦ Guest artist for growths.
♦ Breedings?
♦ Cool down period between RLC growths. (a month or two?)
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:19 am
I am ok with the rapid growth system, RLC auctions and tipping.
It would be nice to see more Sigels and Valsaros around.
Edit:
Also not against having RLC auction/sales for new chimeras or potions that gives a raevan some new characteristic/ skill. E.g: like maybe reptilian eyes or something. But then again I am hesitant about having OP chars through this method.
Also ok with the idea of paying for art upgrade. o3ob
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:42 am
Just going to post this here as well as discord for posterity.
Heeey! So I first off, Kyou, I want to thank you so much for your dedication to the Lab in general, and I think we've all been through a rough patch before. As far as the suggestions currently up on the project, I think I agree with everything you've posted there. I'm curious to know what the "rapid growth system" would be like, is it more money based? And how does that work for those of us who bought customs? Also I am totally 100% behind having there be more RL auctions and things done on DA. And having a cap of maybe 2-3 raevan (for now) because you don't want them to become some kind of "collectable", you know? And maybe having the "adoptables" on dA, or maybe just creating some different kinds of chimera that can be purchased IRL or something that can be added to the character art in future arts? I'm just throwing out these ideas because I know how hard it is to keep a shop afloat on gaia lol. I mean, Magesc took off, but people began to collect and collect and then it became too hard so I stepped down from my own shop lol.
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:43 am
- If the one Raevan per person rule were removed, I would personally wait until after Laurel grew to Valsaros to even consider making a new Raevan concept. I have so many ideas and potential plotlines I’m still working through with a fine tooth comb for Laurel and his family that getting another Raevan to me seems like way too much. Plus, this is my son and I want to devote as much time as I can to him, LOL.
However, if others feel like they can handle a second, I say why not? It’s always exciting to see new Raevans and watching concepts pan out!
- Rp wise, I’m not entirely sure. When I can find time to write solos and rp regularly, I thoroughly enjoy it and have fun, but because of increasing rl obligations and chronic pain, those days are getting fewer and fewer. I would still appreciate a guideline instead of no rp or vauge requirements, but it shouldn’t be too intense that it turns people away or too little that it feels boring. (I know how easy it is to say this than do it, lol.)
What I’m most worried about are growth quests and ORPs.
My issue with ORPs is that I’m easily overwhelmed and often drop out when I feel like I can’t keep up. I don’t want them to go away, but I think making them an optional requirement might be nice? Like an extra thing you can do that can count as an rp requirement instead of a separate rp requirement all together.
With growth quests, I’m extremely excited to start putting Laurel’s together and even have ideas for his Sigel-Valsaros quest (more bare bones that Frei-Sigel, but still), but what I find daunting is getting these ideas approved. My style of writing isn’t as concrete as others and, sometimes, I find better ways to do plots while actively working on the solos before it. Locking down every single idea is something that worries me about growth quests and it makes me nervous about doing them. What I would prefer is changing the way they’re handled to either an ongoing discussion during the quest or to quest approval only after the quest is done.
- I’m not against rapid growth through RLC. I probably won’t use it because of financial circumstances, but I still think the option should be available! Plus, it would be cool if you could buy off certain requirements, like rps or solos if some people like doing either one more or less. That way they can do some of the rp/solos they enjoy and not stress about the ones they don’t.
And again, RLC auctions on DA and tipping are pretty much the same as above. May not be able to use it unless circumstances change, but absolutely for it regardless.
Edit: Totally okay with paying RLC for updated art and anything else! It’s the same opinion as above. Would love to use it if I had the funds, LOL.
And also, thank you so much for all your effort over the years, Kyou and staff! I’m so thankful for Laurel and the ability to be here with all of you! I hope these changes, if implemented, can help the shop grow and keep going for many more years to come!
(Apologies for the mini text wall)
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:04 am
♦ Removing the one Raevan per person rule
I would personally love to get another but I do think a cap would be necessary!
♦ RP no longer required/more lax.
Between 2 jobs and school I haven't been able to RP much, but I think this would be nice xD
♦ Implement a Rapid Growth system via RLC. (subject to artist availability)
Would be down for this just to see more Sigels and Valsaros as Rapid mentioned
♦ You can still grow your Raevans for free via RP fulfillment. RP system to be revamped to be more systemized instead of abstract. (as it currently stands)
Would 100% love this! I think I'd use both methods to grow.
♦ RLC Auctions on Deviantart? (like an adoptable) But don't worry the Lab will still be based on Gaia.
I'd try and participate in these, but from past experience I rarely win these and since I pay in CAD, they tend to be a lot more expensive for me.
♦ (optional) Tipping the artist for art? Even if you fulfilled your RP requirements. It would still be very nice to tip the artist. Again, this is optional.
Would definitely be nice to have smile
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:14 am
Don't worry!! I will be revamping the RP requirement altogether into a new system! The amount of RP you need to grow a Raevan for free will probably still be the same more or less though. It's just maybe I will create a point-system (??) to better keep track of RPs and such. It still needs figuring out though! So please be patient! The shop will not be RP-required anymore, is all. It won't affect you much if you still plan to do all those things that you want to do for Laurel! Likewise, Raevans will no longer get taken away/NPC'ed as well if the new owner does not RP. It basically... will give more freedom for people. And hopefully that will attract some new blood.
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:26 am
Thanks for everything you’ve done, Kyou! I know it isn’t easy!
I think if you have more than one Raevan, there should be a cap (maybe 2?) and I agree there should be maybe a system where you can get a second when you grow the first out of one stage at least. That way there’s at least SOME commitment to the shop outside of just collecting them? Also, it keeps the artists from having a bomb of work dropped on them because suddenly people want more all at once.
I’m for getting rid of RP reqs because so many people have grown with the shop and love their Raevan but can’t commit to RP anymore.
Tipping and RLC auctions I think would be great! RLC growth I think could also be great, as long as there isn’t some kind of immediate frei->Valsaros quick track (lol). And maybe some kind of wait period between, if you go quick Frei->Sigel, you need to wait a bit between Sigel and Val?
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:36 am
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:08 am
Oh yes!! Someone mentioned about cool downs in between stages as well! But fret not, when RLC growths are done, we're probably going to do it flaffle style or artist's pick! Chances of the same person getting their Raevans speed track to Valsaros might be smaller than you think!
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:09 am
kyoupi Don't worry!! I will be revamping the RP requirement altogether into a new system! The amount of RP you need to grow a Raevan for free will probably still be the same more or less though. It's just maybe I will create a point-system (??) to better keep track of RPs and such. It still needs figuring out though! So please be patient! The shop will not be RP-required anymore, is all. It won't affect you much if you still plan to do all those things that you want to do for Laurel! Likewise, Raevans will no longer get taken away/NPC'ed as well if the new owner does not RP. It basically... will give more freedom for people. And hopefully that will attract some new blood. I said this on Discord, but I LOVE the idea of a point system for growth and I know I would absolutely utilize that! I do plan on doing what I have planned for Laurel since I’ve spent so much time going over it, but I might modify it when I see the new system! (Make some points less intense or lengthy, draw other point out, etc) Either way, I’m very excited! All the suggestions so far have been awesome!
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:15 am
I'd definitely support revamping the rp and growth requirements for raevans and making it so the rp isn't mandatory. I love Amity to bits but unfortunately keeping up with intensive rp isn't really an option for me anymore with a full time job, so having something that was more casual would be super nice.
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:36 am
I'm also for nixing the RP requirements. I love Lorin a lot, but it's hard to commit to the requirements when I'm getting ready to move and prepare for a massive career change. ;;;
Atma brings up a good point about the RLC growth by doing the cooldown period between - definitely don't want to get too much dropped in your lap and people are all of a sudden wanting more. The character cap is also a good idea, as has been said by others above me, and I think the same reasons Atma said for the RLC growths applies there too.
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Friendly Conversationalist
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:39 pm
Hi guys, not 100% sure what to put down yet, but I just wanna remind you to double check the Gaia ToS as well when you do commit to the ideas. Sorry for being a party-pooper, but you know how Gaia is very touchy about RLC stuff. sweatdrop
I would suggest a Raevan cap at 3 until you're certain that people can handle more then that, and then add more. It's always easier to slowly make things bigger then open big and rein it in later.
Point systems are really nice. They tend to be a lot easier to organize, though I am curious how this will be done? Like, would there be more points for attending events or is everything going to be one pt, one pt...etc. Categorized points? There's different types of point system so sweatdrop
Sorry if this isn't really helpful orz
I'll throw up more later if something comes to mind...
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:05 pm
So throughout our discord discussion, here are some points we talked about (so we don't have to go through millions of messages to read about what happened)
1) Forum: Moving from gaia to a proboards/zetaboards website (or other free forum hosting site in general). This allows us to basically create the rules and discussing RLC wouldn't be illegal lol. Also, if we go the adopt route and a lot of the raevan become IRL bought, they'd not have any issue at all. Vrosal also brought up the point of potentially hosting a website altogether, though that may be more work than a free forum website builder, but there's that option also.
2) Money Making: Utilizing dA or Tumblr (or both) to make the money and promoting the forum on there for RP and general chat purposes, but having all of the info up on dA so that people can really get into the world. Though it was also stated that the culture of dA can tend to lean more on the path of "reselling" of a character for more than they bought it for whenever they need money, even with explicit rules against such action.
3) World Building: Doing a bit of world building for the Lab itself so it doesn't run off of Gaia's world. I'm just suggesting this because Gaia is great, but having your own world is better, especially if we take this RP away from Gaia altogether. I LOVE world building personally and would love to help if this aspect is taken. I can even help procure a map or pay for a map like I did Magesc all those years ago. World building is just fun, haha.
4) Point System: Crafting the point system pool with say: 1pt for a solo, 2pts for an RP with another person and 3pts for an ORP.
It was also discussed whether or not to use word counts for points vs individual RPs (ie: 1pt per 500 words or something).
Or having a baseline (say 100pts) for all oldies that way we get a little headstart over the newbies when the new system comes out.
Also utilizing that same point system for the future people who may want to RP. Making those points usable for growth of any character they may have or other such things (art upgrades, comics, purchasing chimera, etc).
5) Growth Requirements: A suggestion came up about how the growth requirement time limit could be 3 months for unfilled/filled bottle stages and 6 months for Frei->Sigel as well as 6 months for Sigel->Valsaros. This is when going up the growth line via RP as well as RLC.
5) Buying Valsaros: The potential to buy a full Valsaros art straight away rather than go through the growth ladder, but limiting their capabilities if they wish to RP (ie: no Mystery stage, no stats, etc). Rapid suggested that those who don't wish to RP can have "0" stats altogether. And I think that could be something to play upon also. Like potentially utilizing those stats for something more than an RP flair when it comes to RPing.
6) Mystery Stage: The ability to make this reserved ONLY for the RPers, and not something able to be bought by the art collectors.
7) Nuking Characters: The ability for oldies to nuke their characters and start fresh if they so desire. It was suggested that maybe, ICly, they go through a rune instability and a side effect of the cure is that it completely wipes their memory, allowing the current owner to start fresh, and other owners who have previously RP'd with that character able to justify it on their end.
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:19 pm
Hi guys! Popping back in really quick to throw in my 2 cents
1) Setting
• I know it would disrupt a lot of peoples' characters and plots to make the setting non-Gaia based, including mine, and as it is, the setting feels comfortable.
• I also think that moving off of Gaia as a website would also be a difficult and unnecessary transition that if anything would make Lab more burdensome for Kyou to run.
2) Profitability
• I feel like RLC slots were already a decent way to make money and I don't know whether Lab could be made more profitable without fundamentally changing the kind of thing it is. I feel like for a B/C shop at this stage in Gaia's lifespan, Lab is one of the more profitable shops, so maybe just make RLC info more easily accessible, like linking to offsite prices and slots in the quest forum?
• You could also offer cheaper like adoptable raevans whose souls and essences aren't "canon" for people who only want the new OC art to RP off-Gaia or draw fanart of on sites like DA. The IC explanation for this could be that Kyou found a portal to "alternate worlds" or something in his studies, and then not all raevans would have to be in the Gaia based setting.
• RLC auctions on DA and stuff are fine to me as well!
• Another possibility for RLC is adding cheaper full-RP rlc options that start at later stages like frei, sigel, and valsaros, and it might also give rp a boost because a lot of our newer and more eager RPers get stuck for a while at item stage and the active valsaros and etc don't have a lot of raevans their age to interact with.
• A third RLC option is RLC breedings with more relaxed rules since the current rules are fairly stringent. Allowing people to have breedings which produce more than one child and such would be a popular option I think that people would be willing to pursue.
• Finally, offering an option to pay for updated character art for Valsaros could be good- say something happens to physically alter them in RP and the player wants new official art to reflect that, that could be a good way for you to earn more money without creating more raevans.
3) Character caps
• I'd say no character limit but all characters need to be at Valsaros before you try for a new one is a decent solution to this. It keeps customers able to buy characters, but also keeps them active and not just hit and runs.
4) Growth
• I would say having people talk to you about their growth quests and mark out points when their characters would be emotionally ready to grow but not holding them to __ number of rps __ number of orps and ___ check ins would alleviate pressure on staff and let people decide things at the pace they felt comfy with? Then you'd only need to check in with everyone once or twice for staff approval and they wouldn't need that much from you. The time limit like after 3 months or so you can apply to grow again etc is also a good idea to prevent people from cranking out everything in one week, haha.
• I also think it would be a good idea to let the people who have grandfathered "free" raevans provide their own growth art for raevans to cut down on growth waits if your queue is busy from new RLC stuff so that they have the option to make things easier on you in that way.
5) Activity requirements
• Activity not being mandatory is a great idea, and maybe like a forgiveness for anyone who was black or greylisted for inactivity in the past if any of them are still around? I don't want people to be completely inactive, but I'd rather reward them for activity than punish them for a lack of it, esp since now we're all busy adults.
6) Sustainability
I am concerned w/making Lab completely pay-to-play, and would like to suggest some ways to preserve the free-to-play element w/o being too time consuming
• Choose two or three active approved guardian candidates who don't have a raevan yet per year to quest fairy? That way we know we're not wasting effort on people who will be inactive with free to play characters, and we only had about one flatsale per year before to begin with.
• Have more guest artist flatsales that they have the burden of running with your approval? Not more than one or two per year, and w/the clause that they can only sign on for free to play raevans. I know that flatsales are part of the lifeblood of the B/C too, so eliminating them entirely might be a little too much.
I know I'd be happy to take on art burdens for one or two free raevans if I had the time in future, because I appreciate the community you've built and I'd like to support it more, and I'm sure other artists in and around the B/C might be interested in drawing one or two free raevans since the concept is interesting and it has a prestigious reputation.
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