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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:45 am
I need some help; I spar with a bunch of kids every saturday, but one of em is really tall and has a lot of reach. I need to figure out a way to slip in so I can get him to the ground to grappling but hes so tall! I'm about 5' 9" hes about 6' 1" or something like that. I mean I can just tackle him down but I need something more effective. I usually grab his kick and take him down but when he doesn't kick and I am against the clock I gotta get him to the floor. Whenever I duck in though he strikes and gets me in the head, I am trying to avoid this, I know I can take a few hits but I still want to minimize damage. Any advice?
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:34 am
One tip is to take a massive side step on the way in, I'm not so hot on the grappling thing but thats what I do when I'm trying to close on someone with longer reach who's pounding my head. Come in with a punch to keep them occupied, as the punch is still flying side step suddenly, usually (untill they get used to it) their counter punch goes over your shoulder, thats when I usually chuck a reverse punch in then back out with a kick, but I could see a "hug" ( wink only messin) working equally well. Unfortunately thats one of those things you have to deal with when sparring lanky bastards, I remember sparring this guy that was 6'10"... damn that was hard, he could pound on me without seeming to move much at all
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:04 pm
There are plenty of ways to get inside of your opponant but your preferred method is going to reflect on your style of fighting.
Pay in mind though that in order for these methods to work you have to be sparring full contact not semi contact other wise you opponant is going to be able to counter. Always remember to keep your hands up because if you are close enough to hit your opponant then he is certainly close enough to hit you KEEP YOUR HANDS UP AT ALL TIMES.
Practice your slipping becuase it's a great way to get on the inside. Wait for your opponant to move forward with a punch (jab, lead straight etc). As he moves in slip in and you'll cover the distance quicker as he's moving forwards.
Another good way is to throw a vicious lower leg kick (round house) whcih will cause his hands to drop and use that opportunaty to get inside throwing on the way in.
A great method is the one that Royce Gracie did in the early days of the UFC where he threw a pushing kick on the way in and as his foot landed he was already on the inside to use a takedown.
Mark Weir did a good one (yet slightly unlikely one) in UFC 36 (I think) where he come in using a high outer cresent kick and knocked his opponants hands down and scored the UFCs faster ever knock out because as he landed on the inside he threw and landed on the button.
Another good one which my JKD/Vale Tudo instructor taught me (and i've used with success) was as your opponant throws a leg kick or even a body kick (both round houses on your lead side) intead of using a shin block, turn your hips away from the strike allowing it to hit you and as his leg drops you're already cocked to throw a big cross and a volume of punches (yes you take intensionally a hit to get on the inside but you use the opportunaty to make your opponant pay).
Another one which is risky as you can get knocked out doing this but it can work is to do what I call the bulldozer method where you just keep your hands up and run in just to get on the inside.
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:38 pm
Delmar_Denban There are plenty of ways to get inside of your opponant but your preferred method is going to reflect on your style of fighting. Pay in mind though that in order for these methods to work you have to be sparring full contact not semi contact other wise you opponant is going to be able to counter. Always remember to keep your hands up because if you are close enough to hit your opponant then he is certainly close enough to hit you KEEP YOUR HANDS UP AT ALL TIMES. Practice your slipping becuase it's a great way to get on the inside. Wait for your opponant to move forward with a punch (jab, lead straight etc). As he moves in slip in and you'll cover the distance quicker as he's moving forwards. Another good way is to throw a vicious lower leg kick (round house) whcih will cause his hands to drop and use that opportunaty to get inside throwing on the way in. A great method is the one that Royce Gracie did in the early days of the UFC where he threw a pushing kick on the way in and as his foot landed he was already on the inside to use a takedown. Mark Weir did a good one (yet slightly unlikely one) in UFC 36 (I think) where he come in using a high outer cresent kick and knocked his opponants hands down and scored the UFCs faster ever knock out because as he landed on the inside he threw and landed on the button. Another good one which my JKD/Vale Tudo instructor taught me (and i've used with success) was as your opponant throws a leg kick or even a body kick (both round houses on your lead side) intead of using a shin block, turn your hips away from the strike allowing it to hit you and as his leg drops you're already cocked to throw a big cross and a volume of punches (yes you take intensionally a hit to get on the inside but you use the opportunaty to make your opponant pay). Another one which is risky as you can get knocked out doing this but it can work is to do what I call the bulldozer method where you just keep your hands up and run in just to get on the inside. Interesting...
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:43 pm
Eh? Speak up dammit.......
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:20 am
Yeah - I've always used the 'Buldozer' heh - if you're successful they might only land one good strike - Hands up, drop your shoulder and once you're inside you better watch out for knees and elbows so get them to the floor ASAHP (H stands for humanly.. heh) But like Del said, all depends on your fighting style. *shrugs*
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:58 am
It depends on your build, the bulldozer method works well for big people, not so good for little people. And there are people that are quite good at stopping that sort of thing, I've had quite a bit of practise at it as I regularly sparr this great huge guy that likes to charge in, I've found that digging in a hard side kick should stop him... just (he's massive), but if I dont stop him I'm in trouble, big trouble The block and counter method works well on people with longer reach than you. Again sparring huge guy has taught me to wait for him to punch then slip my foot into his ribs or dip and cross/reverse punch, its this method that i think that would adapt to shooting in quite well. Move into his punching range, create a tempting target of your head by keeping your hands quite low, as soon as his hands move throw up a blocking arm, dip slightly and charge. Try not to catch a knee to the face...
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:30 pm
DarklingGlory It depends on your build, the bulldozer method works well for big people, not so good for little people. And there are people that are quite good at stopping that sort of thing, I've had quite a bit of practise at it as I regularly sparr this great huge guy that likes to charge in, I've found that digging in a hard side kick should stop him... just (he's massive), but if I dont stop him I'm in trouble, big trouble The block and counter method works well on people with longer reach than you. Again sparring huge guy has taught me to wait for him to punch then slip my foot into his ribs or dip and cross/reverse punch, its this method that i think that would adapt to shooting in quite well. Move into his punching range, create a tempting target of your head by keeping your hands quite low, as soon as his hands move throw up a blocking arm, dip slightly and charge. Try not to catch a knee to the face... Side kicks against a charge will take u completley off balance, and leave a huge opening for a double leg takedown. i dont suggest his strategy, but u can try it. Im jus sure that i would catch that sidekick an take u down.
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:57 am
Saajei DarklingGlory It depends on your build, the bulldozer method works well for big people, not so good for little people. And there are people that are quite good at stopping that sort of thing, I've had quite a bit of practise at it as I regularly sparr this great huge guy that likes to charge in, I've found that digging in a hard side kick should stop him... just (he's massive), but if I dont stop him I'm in trouble, big trouble The block and counter method works well on people with longer reach than you. Again sparring huge guy has taught me to wait for him to punch then slip my foot into his ribs or dip and cross/reverse punch, its this method that i think that would adapt to shooting in quite well. Move into his punching range, create a tempting target of your head by keeping your hands quite low, as soon as his hands move throw up a blocking arm, dip slightly and charge. Try not to catch a knee to the face... Side kicks against a charge will take u completley off balance, and leave a huge opening for a double leg takedown. i dont suggest his strategy, but u can try it. Im jus sure that i would catch that sidekick an take u down. Yep there is a good chance you would, you wouldn't even need to catch it just slip it. I wasn't actually suggesting this strategy against a grappler, I was pointing out that people get used to the bulldozer method and find ways of dealing with it. Coming running in might work once if you suprise them but on the whole it leaves you too open
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:58 pm
Your approach to this is, as already stated, is vastly dependant on your style of sparring. Personally its very rare for me to be the "smaller" guy and even in situations I've found that a few inches difference of height or a few pounds doesn't really make too much of a difference, though I'm considerly taller then you at 197cms lol.
The problem with getting on the inside is that, like most close quarters combat outside of systems like R.O.S.S, Systema, various schools of Kali and the occasional JJJ branch you'll almost always be taught to counter react rather then take the offensive.
Basicly, if it were me I'd intercept and throw a hook punch into the elbow, quickly step in (like the simple sliding footwork Delmar mentioned) grab the injured arms wrist with my leading hand and then grab the guys throat, without a base he can't really strike me and I could effectively strangle him(or something similar, I'm quite sponetaneous with such things when it came to it) aswell as moving to re-manage any other threats that he can procure (unless he has several friends) or some such technique, though its fair to say that its completely moot in sparring.
Try a very low roundhouse kick to just beside the guys knee or shin and then slide in on the inside to give him a hook to the jaw, personally I'd attempt the kick with the foward foot soley to deliver it that much quicker and get inside alot faster, if you find that you're too close to jab then go for an elbow first, you have to manage yourself very quickly and it would probably be best to finish to sweep/throw and then either apply a submission hold or full mount and pummel.
I hope thats remotely helpful, someone around a similar build to your own attempted to do something likewise to me, though admittedly I simply quickly raised my leg and then moved my back leg to a sidekick to the guys waist, sweeping him from their feet and onto to the floor so its all relative really.
Maybe if he throws a punch you can move to the outside quickly, grab the offending wrist and strike him in the neck with your elbow and trips/sweep him down, assuming you'd be effictively behind him though I'm not to sure on its efficency considering the opposing force.
Diversely you could grab the offending wrist, tug him foward slightly if your strength would allow and place a kick to the knee before moving into the trapping range.
These are just some examples really, they probably won't really be helpful to you, if so, I'm sorry and shall try to help more later.
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:10 pm
Man. Speaking of counteracting. ******** Nog, I wish i could fight like him. Take 50 of your hardest blows then catch one and armbar or triangle you. I swear, that guy has the hardest chin in the world. I mean ******** CroCop caught him with his kick and Nog just kinda shrugged it off. That's when i Realized, Nog was a ******** Machine. Until Igor 2.0 (Fedor) came around.
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:05 am
I know this topic is old and Jazbo probably already got what he wanted, but couldn't he just use akeido?
If the opponent(Let's call him Nick).
If Nick went to punch Jazbo with his right hand, Jazbo could sidestep to the left while bringing his right hand, palm open to "push" the fist from the straight line.
But after that, Jazbo would quickly bring his left leg forward while his left arm follows to "grab" the back of the neck of Nick. Here, Jazbo would continue in his circular way, bending his left leg to almost kneel on it while "pushing" Nick to the ground with his left hand.
I BELIEVE this is a barrel roll, but I get my names mixed up.
Anyway, all this should happen in one second or less, and Nick's momentum should do the work for you. The only problem is Jazbo moving his arms and body correctly and fast enough.
But like everyone else said, it depends on what style you use, so I'm probably WAY out of my way trying to suggest akeido.
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:35 am
DarklingGlory It depends on your build, the bulldozer method works well for big people, not so good for little people. And there are people that are quite good at stopping that sort of thing, I've had quite a bit of practise at it as I regularly sparr this great huge guy that likes to charge in, I've found that digging in a hard side kick should stop him... just (he's massive), but if I dont stop him I'm in trouble, big trouble I'd like to state the counterpoint to this: In my experience being the small guy, a charge tends to be an extremely poor tactic to use against small fighters. I have a tendency to sidestep, trip, and go to ground. (Yes, this has come up, as my weapon of choice is a staff. Reach advantage is something I very much enjoy having.) My own tactic trying to force larger opponents to ground tends to be a punch thrown in one direction about the same time as I step in in the other. Distraction's simple, but it's extremely effective.
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