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 Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:20 pm
I am a reform Jew, but latley in meeting many more Jews
I have received many negative comments.
What are you views on this
Why/why not should the movement be accepted?
I feel that though non halachic the reform movement is a good idea.
It essentially Judaism+modernity, giving people a choice on which level thy are on, yet still spiritually fufilling
Even though the ATL has a pretty good Jewish community( I'm walking distance from the JCC) we still are surrounded with the Ameri-Christian world. Orthodox Judaism won't work here, especially with the predjudice
(my freinds Temple- sorry can't spell syn-o-gauge- was bombed by the KKK. twice!!!) But with reform Judaism, we can fit in with moidern society
while keeping Jewish values.
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:12 pm
MANNOWAR I am a reform Jew, but latley in meeting many more Jews I have received many negative comments. What are you views on this Why/why not should the movement be accepted? I feel that though non halachic the reform movement is a good idea. It essentially Judaism+modernity, giving people a choice on which level thy are on, yet still spiritually fufilling Even though the ATL has a pretty good Jewish community( I'm walking distance from the JCC) we still are surrounded with the Ameri-Christian world. Orthodox Judaism won't work here, especially with the predjudice (my freinds Temple- sorry can't spell syn-o-gauge- was bombed by the KKK. twice!!!) But with reform Judaism, we can fit in with moidern society while keeping Jewish values. You said it yourself, the reason why many (though not me) don't accept it- it's non-halachic. Some of these same people have serious trouble accepting Conservative Jews as well. As for Orthodox Judaism not surviving with the prejudice... not true. More dangerous prejudice has occured in the past, and traditional Judaism has survived. I'm sure Zonko will show up and give a fuller answer, though. He's probably the person in the guild with the biggest issues in accepting Reform, and even Conservative Judaism, at times. (They're still Jewish to them, but I think he has a desire to bring us back to traditional Judaism.)
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:06 pm
Personally, I just find Reform Judaism to be... Odd. I'm not comfortable in your services- too much English and music and such. Usually I just want to hear the same familiar nusach and Hebrew.
Maybe if one is raised within the Reform tradition it works, but I have no difficulty whatsoever integrating Halachic law and modern life. I keep kosher without difficulty, miss school for Yom Tov without any problems from my teachers, etc. Why does Judaism have to change for modern life? Why can't we make our traditions and modern life work together?
You'd be suprised at how well Orthodoxy works despite anti-semitism. Many Orthodox groups are much more insular communities than Conservative and Reform, which helps.
On a Modly note, a paragraph won't kill you. So many line breaks are bad on the eyes. Secondly, a title that relates to the topic would help. I could tell it had to do with Reform Judaism, but I doubt the Orthodox among us could.
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:19 pm
Kiashana Personally, I just find Reform Judaism to be... Odd. I'm not comfortable in your services- too much English and music and such. Usually I just want to hear the same familiar nusach and Hebrew. Maybe if one is raised within the Reform tradition it works, but I have no difficulty whatsoever integrating Halachic law and modern life. I keep kosher without difficulty, miss school for Yom Tov without any problems from my teachers, etc. Why does Judaism have to change for modern life? Why can't we make our traditions and modern life work together? You'd be suprised at how well Orthodoxy works despite anti-semitism. Many Orthodox groups are much more insular communities than Conservative and Reform, which helps. "why can't we make our traditions and modern life work together". there's an interesting statement for you. i have no issues with the it the way you're using it, but some would interpret it differently. as in, "why can't we make our traditions (tefillah) and modern life (english) work together". it's a matter of perspective. "no difficulty whatsoever"? tell me, do you keep shabbos? thanks
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:51 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:57 pm
RoseRose You said it yourself, the reason why many (though not me) don't accept it- it's non-halachic. Some of these same people have serious trouble accepting Conservative Jews as well. As for Orthodox Judaism not surviving with the prejudice... not true. More dangerous prejudice has occured in the past, and traditional Judaism has survived. ya gotta love good ol' sense and reason Quote: I'm sure Zonko will show up and give a fuller answer, though. just for you Quote: He's probably the person in the guild with the biggest issues in accepting Reform, and even Conservative Judaism, at times. (They're still Jewish to them, but I think he has a desire to bring us back to traditional Judaism.) i like to believe my views are rather well-based.
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:19 pm
ZonkotheSane Kiashana Personally, I just find Reform Judaism to be... Odd. I'm not comfortable in your services- too much English and music and such. Usually I just want to hear the same familiar nusach and Hebrew. Maybe if one is raised within the Reform tradition it works, but I have no difficulty whatsoever integrating Halachic law and modern life. I keep kosher without difficulty, miss school for Yom Tov without any problems from my teachers, etc. Why does Judaism have to change for modern life? Why can't we make our traditions and modern life work together? You'd be suprised at how well Orthodoxy works despite anti-semitism. Many Orthodox groups are much more insular communities than Conservative and Reform, which helps. "why can't we make our traditions and modern life work together". there's an interesting statement for you. i have no issues with the it the way you're using it, but some would interpret it differently. as in, "why can't we make our traditions (tefillah) and modern life (english) work together". it's a matter of perspective. "no difficulty whatsoever"? tell me, do you keep shabbos? thanksZonko, you know I don't keep halacha to the same extent as you. However, I don't go out on Friday nights, even though my friends all do. I don't spend money on Shabbas, even if I'm out and about with friends. I go to services on Shabbas in the morning, and before I go out on Saturday night we do Havdalah. I may not keep Shabbas entirely- electricity, etc- but I keep Shabbas to a much greater extent than most of my Jewish friends. For a wonderful example, the parents of my confirmation class didn't want the service to be on the morning of June 2nd. Their reasoning? There are SATs that day. As in the kids aren't taking Sunday SATs, which I did.
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:29 pm
Kiashana ZonkotheSane Kiashana Personally, I just find Reform Judaism to be... Odd. I'm not comfortable in your services- too much English and music and such. Usually I just want to hear the same familiar nusach and Hebrew. Maybe if one is raised within the Reform tradition it works, but I have no difficulty whatsoever integrating Halachic law and modern life. I keep kosher without difficulty, miss school for Yom Tov without any problems from my teachers, etc. Why does Judaism have to change for modern life? Why can't we make our traditions and modern life work together? You'd be suprised at how well Orthodoxy works despite anti-semitism. Many Orthodox groups are much more insular communities than Conservative and Reform, which helps. "why can't we make our traditions and modern life work together". there's an interesting statement for you. i have no issues with the it the way you're using it, but some would interpret it differently. as in, "why can't we make our traditions (tefillah) and modern life (english) work together". it's a matter of perspective. "no difficulty whatsoever"? tell me, do you keep shabbos? thanksZonko, you know I don't keep halacha to the same extent as you. However, I don't go out on Friday nights, even though my friends all do. I don't spend money on Shabbas, even if I'm out and about with friends. I go to services on Shabbas in the morning, and before I go out on Saturday night we do Havdalah. I may not keep Shabbas entirely- electricity, etc- but I keep Shabbas to a much greater extent than most of my Jewish friends. For a wonderful example, the parents of my confirmation class didn't want the service to be on the morning of June 2nd. Their reasoning? There are SATs that day. As in the kids aren't taking Sunday SATs, which I did. i already said that i agree with you. but if there's no difficulty, why not keep the halachos? i'm not really critisizing here-i'm curious. or maybe i just want to get you to admit that you're wrong. or both. i win, either way
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:39 pm
I don't find it difficult to keep most of them, hence why I do. There are things I find ridiculous- like your thing about not touching girls or whatever? Yea, most of my close friends are guys, and I'm not going to not hug them.
But things like keeping kosher or Shabbas aren't difficult, and I actually enjoy them.
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:42 pm
I agree with kia on this one- I follow the Torah to the best of my ability, but there are some things that I just don't agree with. I don't really like that one kia brought up, either! Come on, who else am I supposed to spar with but a guy, and how do you practice takedowns on somebody you can't touch? xp
I'm sorry if this offends anybody sweatdrop
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:45 pm
they aren't ridiculous at all. there is much more wisdom and sense behind those laws than you realise (the same can be said of anything in the torah, to anybody)
what is ridiculous is accepting some things but rejecting others.
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:49 pm
No, it's actually not.
We are human- we have our own free will, our own thought. Our minds think about things differently then others. You may be good at math, but horrible at science. You can accept truth and reject lies. I'm really not trying to be rude or offensive here (I know that I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in Judaism as half the people here) but what sense do you see behind that specific law?
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:27 pm
darkphoenix1247 No, it's actually not. We are human- we have our own free will, our own thought. Our minds think about things differently then others. You may be good at math, but horrible at science. You can accept truth and reject lies. I'm really not trying to be rude or offensive here (I know that I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in Judaism as half the people here) but what sense do you see behind that specific law? a)accepting/rejecting some things but not others means that you obviously are not taking into account the fact that the torah was written by hashem. ani mamim, again. once you dispute that, there are no longer grounds for argument. b)http://www.askmoses.com/qa_detail.html?h=405&o=81309 one example. c)http://www.askmoses.com/qa_detail.html?h=237&o=2501 semi relevant. d) i haven't been able to find a decent source for tumah, niddah and the like, but that's also a big part
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:26 pm
I would liketo quote zonko but he writes alot and the giant quotes annoy me
The Torah was written by Hashem, but the thirteen principals were not.
Here is aview on halacha
The term comes from the
same shoresh as HOLECH
which means to walk or go.
this could mean that Halacha
is like "the way" to go. Okay I
forget the rest but itcould be
meant to mean tradition as oposed
to law. Just something to think about
I disagree with the traditional branches on one thing: the messiah concept I think it is elitist and closed- minded
Thankyou all for posting your opinions biggrin
by the zonko that narcotics comment could be turned artound at your branch. You might not want to try that if you debate against an athiest
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:43 pm
MANNOWAR I would liketo quote zonko but he writes alot and the giant quotes annoy me The Torah was written by Hashem, but the thirteen principals were not. Here is aview on halacha The term comes from the same shoresh as HOLECH which means to walk or go. this could mean that Halacha is like "the way" to go. Okay I forget the rest but itcould be meant to mean tradition as oposed to law. Just something to think about this is not a linguistic/semantic debate. what the word comes from is not neccessarily it's meaning. tradition=law, to a certain degree. but the word "halacha" refers to the rulings of the shulchan orech (which, i'm sure you can claim, is really a cook book) by R. yosef caro. he compiled all the rulings in the torah, and set the law according to majority rule (of rashi, rambam, and tosefos). he also had an angel helping him, but that's another story, and not really relevant. anyway, sure you can turn this into a semantic argument, but what's the point? halacha=law. not the literal translation, but what it refers to. Quote: I disagree with the traditional branches on one thing: the messiah concept I think it is elitist and closed- minded i have no idea what you're talking about, but i think jews have earned the right to be elitist, and who are you to judge closemindedness. Quote: Thankyou all for posting your opinions biggrin you're welcome 3nodding Quote: by the zonko that narcotics comment could be turned artound at your branch. You might not want to try that if you debate against an athiest well, then it's a good thing i'm not debating against an aethiest, isn't it?
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