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 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:46 pm
If you guys haven't been looking at the news, a lovely "Emily Doe" was sexually assaulted behind a dumpster and left there unconscious after two Swedish graduate students caught the man in the middle of the action and attacked him.
He was recently given a 6 month sentence that can be re-appealed for as little as a 3 month sentence on good behavior. 3. months.
Literally not even a whole semester.
Here is a rebuttal the victim had:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/06/04/you-took-away-my-worth-a-rape-victim-delivers-powerful-message-to-a-former-stanford-swimmer/?postshare=5341465343693091&tid=ss_fb
tl;dr - Explain your thought on this case or on 'rape culture' in general. Do you believe it exists? Do you believe dress code and alcohol are reasons for women to be blamed for 'their part' of a rape, or not?
----
trigger warning for my opinions, ya'll
In my opinion, it's all a bunch of bull.
Being drunk is not a crime, and a woman should be able to be drunk without fearing for her safety. I have been molested and had 2 attempted rapes, one of which happened in a public movie theater and ended in me running through a dark parking lot in the middle of the night.
I believe a lot of men are genuinely good folks, but unfortunately there is a huge problem these days with guys thinking they can just go ahead and take what they want. There is a culture that loves aggressive guys but not abusive ones, and many do not know how to separate the two.
I believe that this pig should have gotten at least 5 years. He had 36 votes to his guilt, but the judge didn't want to ruin his swimming career.
Obviously this motherf***** didn't care about the pool when he was diving into that innocent girl.
I believe that consensual sex does not happen with an unconscious female behind a dumpster with her skin digging into pine cones and gravel.
It is one of those situations that screams guilt to me; in my court case, we have to talk about QALY. Quality Adjusted Life Years. How much less cn this person earn and thrive, and how can we quantify that for reinbursement. This judge is worried about the qaly of this young man and how his life and earnings could be 'ruined,' but what of the woman who can't ride public transport out of fear, or cannot work with men the same way because she doesn't trust them? What about the meds she may have to buy for the PTSD or the fact that she will have triggers in every day situations now? Is this not a quantity we wish to worry about?
Something of a double standard exists so deep into the marrow of this issue it actually stirs me in the worst possible way.
What do you guys think?
Did the judge make the right call?
What do you make of rape culture?
What do you make of the whole "women regret it later" argument?
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:02 am
there is never a justified reason
for a man to do to a woman or a woman to do to a man (yes it can happen)
no is no .. and if they aren't capable of saying no (black out drunk/unconscious) then the answer is always NO
and maybe if they didn't want to punish the man with time (and yes he should have gotten longer) he should have been removed from his team .. lose any athletic scholarships etc etc
fact - the judge should not have changed the ruling given by the jury who judged him
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:04 am
Volatile, I am sorry for what you experienced.. that was horrible. I think rape culture DOES exist no matter what they say and it's a very scary truth that it's already 2016 and people are still asking the wrong people with the wrong question.. Like how is it than when someone was abused/harassed , they ask the person abused what he/she did.. and that's just wrong and the fact that sometimes.. there's already a hard proof (like caught and camera) and they'd still ask for other evidence..It makes me sick and disgusted and just what the hell?! I hate looking/reading news like this because they end up with the same result every.single.time You know, sometimes, I wish I'm a guy just so I can walk the streets and not feel afraid and it seriously bothers me that people still don't get how... as you said it A drunk person can't give consent. An unconscious person can't give consent. Sometimes.. I wish they'd ask these kind of guys.. questions like.. don't you have a mother? a sister? a girlfriend? a wife? a daughter? How would you feel if a guy like you did this to them? I want to hear what they'll say and see them realize how disgusting they are. Sorry for rambling.. this topic makes my blood boil.
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:47 am
ll Hige ll Volatile, I am sorry for what you experienced.. that was horrible. I think rape culture DOES exist no matter what they say and it's a very scary truth that it's already 2016 and people are still asking the wrong people with the wrong question.. Like how is it than when someone was abused/harassed , they ask the person abused what he/she did.. and that's just wrong and the fact that sometimes.. there's already a hard proof (like caught and camera) and they'd still ask for other evidence..It makes me sick and disgusted and just what the hell?! I hate looking/reading news like this because they end up with the same result every.single.time You know, sometimes, I wish I'm a guy just so I can walk the streets and not feel afraid and it seriously bothers me that people still don't get how... as you said it A drunk person can't give consent. An unconscious person can't give consent. Sometimes.. I wish they'd ask these kind of guys.. questions like.. don't you have a mother? a sister? a girlfriend? a wife? a daughter? How would you feel if a guy like you did this to them? I want to hear what they'll say and see them realize how disgusting they are. Sorry for rambling.. this topic makes my blood boil. see the problem is drunk people can give consent.. black out drunk people are the difference.. people need to learn there is a tipsy drunk and a black out drunk.... if you are tipsy feeling good.. a yes is a yes lol
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:04 am
I've been raped 3 times. Because I have brain damage and safety skills never grew up. I'm at the level of a four year old who gets lured by free candy.
I can't sense the red flags that everyone else can. If I didn't have brain damage my life would be very different and I would have noticed the red flags. But I just don't catch on.
I trust. And don't fear enough. When I realize danger, it's too late and I can't get out of it.
I have decided to scream FIRE when I realize danger. But that's gonna take a while to recall when danger comes.
What I want is friends. And that is my goal. When I meet a person, my first thought is FRIENNNNND. Not stranger danger.
I'm so attention starved, that I don't see things wrong with anyone.
I have my mom, but she's my mom. I just need more attention then my sisters. I love them, but they're not around.
I'm just a person who needs attention. Because of the brain damage, sure. But I think I would need attention anyway.
It's very very hard to be in need of attention and not allowed to go out to make friends.
Lawrenceville does suck, but I am here and can't do anything about it.
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:13 pm
My thing is, if a woman cannot stand up properly or speak an entire sentence, she cannot consent.
There is nothing hot about a situation where you are being intimate with someone with th same current linguistic skills as an infant.
I don't know what is attractive about that, or why, for instance, everyone is okay with him being spared jail time because of all these 'opportunities.'
Like, Listen bright eyes, if you thought your career mattered, you shouldn't have become a rapist. If you wanted to show everyone how consensual it was, you shouldn't have run, it shouldn't have been behind a dumpster, it shouldn't have been so rough that she was covered in bruises.
That was not consensual if she doesn't know your name or can't tell people what you looked like.
If she learned about what happened to her online, it wasn't consensual, it was rape.
People seem to get ******** up on the definition.
Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent.
I DON'T CARE IF IT IS A p***s, A FINGER, A PENCIL, OR EVEN A SURGICAL SPECULUM.
If you are not a medical professional with the proper paperwork you are legally restricted from putting ANYTHING in there without conscious consent or without their will. Even if the person begins the process and changes their mind, you don't finish. You stop. You leave the situation.
If she was conscious, said yes, and then became unconscious, by law, and by human decency, you still stop, because she could be suffering from alcohol poisoning, could be seriously ill, or a number of other things.
If you wouldn't do it to a person in a coma, you shouldn't do it to a black out drunk person. That person has no control over their body at that point.
I believe that rapists need much more severe sentences.
A man can grow weed in his back yard for 2 years and get life, but a man takes a woman's pride and lets her be in the position to share the dirty truth with everyone who cares about her, and he gets 90 days.
90 Days is less than the time it takes for many people to get a psychological evaluation.
90 Days is less than the time it takes for many people to get a passport.
90 Days is not enough time to decide rape might not be such a good idea.
I hate to say it, but maybe his opinions of rape will change
when he witnesses the other end of his atrocity in prison.
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:52 pm
I think the judge made the wrong call. He should have at least gotten more time in jail. In this case he was probably just being dumb.
I'm never sure what rape culture means exactly. So idk lol
And I've watched a few women decide to lie about it later so it's possible and happens. People are terrible and love running each others lives, so it's always worth taking a moment to consider whether it was rape or just a change of heart.
Flip side, they've got stories about men who are now labeled rapists forever because the ex gf decided it was worth the lie.
I think we just need to invent mind reading so we can get the actual truth out of people. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:30 pm
DefauIt I think the judge made the wrong call. He should have at least gotten more time in jail. In this case he was probably just being dumb. I'm never sure what rape culture means exactly. So idk lol And I've watched a few women decide to lie about it later so it's possible and happens. People are terrible and love running each others lives, so it's always worth taking a moment to consider whether it was rape or just a change of heart. Flip side, they've got stories about men who are now labeled rapists forever because the ex gf decided it was worth the lie. I think we just need to invent mind reading so we can get the actual truth out of people. 3nodding
I agree with the last part,
however I have found that the rape-kitting and police report aspects are so traumatizing that I don't think the majority of women would go through that on the basis of post-coital guilt. I mean, it is not impossible and probably has happened I just think that'd be a minority, not a majority. Most cases the rape kits don't even get tested, but in many states you are supposed to report the rape quickly after, or it will not hold as well in court.
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:21 pm
I wonder what makes it ok in the rapist's mind. "I like you so I'm gonna hold you down and force you to have sex with me"......ummmm neutral
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:30 pm
[.Volatile.] DefauIt I think the judge made the wrong call. He should have at least gotten more time in jail. In this case he was probably just being dumb. I'm never sure what rape culture means exactly. So idk lol And I've watched a few women decide to lie about it later so it's possible and happens. People are terrible and love running each others lives, so it's always worth taking a moment to consider whether it was rape or just a change of heart. Flip side, they've got stories about men who are now labeled rapists forever because the ex gf decided it was worth the lie. I think we just need to invent mind reading so we can get the actual truth out of people. 3nodding
I agree with the last part,
however I have found that the rape-kitting and police report aspects are so traumatizing that I don't think the majority of women would go through that on the basis of post-coital guilt. I mean, it is not impossible and probably has happened I just think that'd be a minority, not a majority. Most cases the rape kits don't even get tested, but in many states you are supposed to report the rape quickly after, or it will not hold as well in court. most do it after a kit wouldnt be of use. the woman who lives next door to my mom is currently doing this to her husband. She charged him with rape a few times, and has restraining orders out against him, which get drops when she never shows for court. But the things she claims makes no sense. She lets him buy her things and pay her bills and then she charges him weeks after the fact when they start arguing over something else again. its horrible. its like an episode of maury over there XD people like her are probably ruining the argument over all these kinds of things. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:33 pm
Green_crayon42 I wonder what makes it ok in the rapist's mind. "I like you so I'm gonna hold you down and force you to have sex with me"......ummmm neutral im sure most are more like "shes not really saying no, she wants this too" or maybe "I love her so much, I deserve this, and after she'll see i love her" to me its different types of rape. the ones that go out 'hunting' for victims are usually murderers in the making. XD
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:33 am
also, update:
this guy has been banned by USA swimming - meaning his career is already ruined, despite this judge trying to salvage it
the guy's parents are a joke - his mom says she's too distraught to decorate her second home (???) and his dad says he only got 20 minutes of action so don't punish him
the judge will likely not face any consequences for this decision - he's running unopposed for reelection this year
the kid will only serve 3 months of basically probation - rather than a 14 year sentence, as was originally recommended
the rapist took pictures of his victim during the crime - he sent them to his friends, and police have gotten a warrant to go through his phone, in which they found evidence of drug and alcohol abuse, as well as other creepy s**t
additionally, other Jane Doe's from the club have come forward (some anonymously, some not) about how he was abusing or forcing himself on them prior to raping Emily Doe that same night
kid is scum. deserves to go to jail for a long long time.
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:34 am
Green_crayon42 I wonder what makes it ok in the rapist's mind. "I like you so I'm gonna hold you down and force you to have sex with me"......ummmm neutral
probably not even 'i like you'
more like 'you're a warm body i can control'
he harassed several other women that night prior to raping his victim
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:41 am
[.Volatile.] My thing is, if a woman cannot stand up properly or speak an entire sentence, she cannot consent.
There is nothing hot about a situation where you are being intimate with someone with th same current linguistic skills as an infant.
I don't know what is attractive about that, or why, for instance, everyone is okay with him being spared jail time because of all these 'opportunities.'
Like, Listen bright eyes, if you thought your career mattered, you shouldn't have become a rapist. If you wanted to show everyone how consensual it was, you shouldn't have run, it shouldn't have been behind a dumpster, it shouldn't have been so rough that she was covered in bruises.
That was not consensual if she doesn't know your name or can't tell people what you looked like.
If she learned about what happened to her online, it wasn't consensual, it was rape.
People seem to get ******** up on the definition.
Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent.
I DON'T CARE IF IT IS A p***s, A FINGER, A PENCIL, OR EVEN A SURGICAL SPECULUM.
If you are not a medical professional with the proper paperwork you are legally restricted from putting ANYTHING in there without conscious consent or without their will. Even if the person begins the process and changes their mind, you don't finish. You stop. You leave the situation.
If she was conscious, said yes, and then became unconscious, by law, and by human decency, you still stop, because she could be suffering from alcohol poisoning, could be seriously ill, or a number of other things.
If you wouldn't do it to a person in a coma, you shouldn't do it to a black out drunk person. That person has no control over their body at that point.
I believe that rapists need much more severe sentences.
A man can grow weed in his back yard for 2 years and get life, but a man takes a woman's pride and lets her be in the position to share the dirty truth with everyone who cares about her, and he gets 90 days.
90 Days is less than the time it takes for many people to get a psychological evaluation.
90 Days is less than the time it takes for many people to get a passport.
90 Days is not enough time to decide rape might not be such a good idea.
I hate to say it, but maybe his opinions of rape will change
when he witnesses the other end of his atrocity in prison.
Your whole post and points are amazing. I just want to reiterate: Quote: ...rapists need much more severe sentences. A man can grow weed in his back yard for 2 years and get life, but a man takes a woman's pride and lets her be in the position to share the dirty truth with everyone who cares about her, and he gets 90 days.
90 Days is less than the time it takes for many people to get a psychological evaluation.
90 Days is less than the time it takes for many people to get a passport.
90 Days is not enough time to decide rape might not be such a good idea.
I hate to say it, but maybe his opinions of rape will change when he witnesses the other end of his atrocity in prison. I don't condone rape in prison, but maybe you're right. Additionally, there's always a race and class issue here. You mentioned kids going away for pot - let's acknowledge that it's overwhelmingly brown kids who get major sentences for minor drug charges. If this kid had been black and poor, even mainstream media would be calling for his head. Heck, we might have seen his mugshot FIRST, without having to mount a campaign demanding it. Regardless of ANY details regarding either the perp or the victim - if it is rape, you deserve to go away for a long, long time.
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:04 pm
3 months is definately not enough.
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