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 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:39 pm
Let's talk Dragon Veins!
How do you like the inclusion of Dragon Veins into Fates?What are your favorite examples of them? What is your criteria for what makes a Dragon Vein well implemented as opposed to poorly implemented?
The Dragon Veins I have most appreciated are the once you actually have to THINK about whether and when to use or not as opposed to just blindly using them and instantly profiting/immediately getting a huge benefit. Those would be my extremes for well designed Dragon Veins and poorly designed ones.
One chapter that really stands our for me as a well implemented use of them is Conquest 17 which has something of a maze layout with a LOT of Dragon Veins throughout. Choosing to use them would really alter the available and blocked off paths, potentially blocking off enemies but also exposing you to other ones or trapping you in with them. You really had to put thought into if and when to use them instead of just using them to use them. Plus, they were entirely optional, giving the chapter a beautifully wider range of ways to strategically tackle it; I didn't use any of the Dragon Veins here but I know Tiki used quite a few of them.
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:55 pm
At first dragon veins were presented as just a thing that we should do because why not, it's free, helps you, and there's no drawback. This made me concerned about future levels. Fortunately, they become much better utilized throughout the game.
I would have to agree with your assessment on what makes them well implemented and not well implemented, with one exception being Conquest 9, which isn't so much about whether or not to use it, and morose doing a mini stealth mission to get to it. Not difficult, but fun and unique.
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:19 pm
Talk about a breath of fresh air to the series!
I also like that the veins can be used against you as well. So like the best gameplay options, there is a potential for them to be harmful as well as helpful. Even if there isn't an enemy unit using them, just because you can use them doesn't always mean you should! I think Conquest 20 and 22 are really good examples of this in particular.
I've talked a lot about the dragonveins in my favorite chapters already. At risk of repeating myself, I'll just say for now that a lot of my favorite chapters also had the most interesting dragonveins that required the most thought, such as 17.
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:49 pm
Gotta agree with you that you have to think through about whether to use the Dragon Veins or not as well as how you want to time it.
I will admit that in Birthrights, there are some chapters I didn't use the Dragon Veins since it doesn't help benefit my side (aka: Use thunder to strike down ONE enemy instead of more enemies.) In addition, there are some Dragon Veins that's not only benefit to your team but also to the enemy too, so you have to think carefully if you want either side to have a fair playing field or not.
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:08 am
I really like that they tried something new in the game in terms of major (sometimes optional) mechanics. I was pondering when to use dragon veins as early as chapter 4 (since the boss only moves once you use that dragon vein), but I'd definitely say that it was best implemented in Conquest 17. I screwed myself over so many times trying to figure out just how each dragon vein would alter the threat range, especially since I couldn't even rely on a consistent Defense score due to most of the enemies having shurikens.
I hope they keep using similar mechanics in future games because it can certainly add a new level of strategy to the game, which I greatly enjoyed.
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:32 pm
I just realized. Dragon Vein story paralells.
In the Birthright chapter, I forget exactly which, where you fight Camilla for the first time, there are dragon veins where you can rain magic down on enemies and do significant damage.
Next time you face her, it's lategame. And there are dragon veins being used against you, except more potent and more damaging.
Actually, for that chapter, it was a good example of how even simpler dragon veins can be good. I think it was birthright chapter 23? With the fireballs? Trying to predict which hall would be attacked and seeing if you could space out your units well enough to handle the attacks, and plan for those barriers to be taken out.
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:22 pm
ThePersonInFrontOfYou I just realized. Dragon Vein story paralells. In the Birthright chapter, I forget exactly which, where you fight Camilla for the first time, there are dragon veins where you can rain magic down on enemies and do significant damage. Next time you face her, it's lategame. And there are dragon veins being used against you, except more potent and more damaging. Actually, for that chapter, it was a good example of how even simpler dragon veins can be good. I think it was birthright chapter 23? With the fireballs? Trying to predict which hall would be attacked and seeing if you could space out your units well enough to handle the attacks, and plan for those barriers to be taken out. An interesting observation. In regards to the first chapter, I believe it leaves targets it hits with JUST 1 HP. By contrast the fire balls in 23 only take down 10 HP, so it's less damaging. Although they do have a wider range and can be used repeatedly. Ch 23 is actually probably my favorite chapter in Birthright because the Dragon Veins in it are unlimited so it's a... trial by fire cool ! You can't just try to wait out the dragon veins, which I liked Aside from chapters that really make you think about whether or not to use a dragon vein at all strategically, I DID love what they contributed to Chapters 20 (the wind) and 21 (Eternal Stairwell escape) in terms of setting a tone for the chapter. Are you ever FORCED to use them in those chapters? No, technically. But the mechanics in Chapter 20 are super cool and the dragon veins in it really adds a beautiful depth to the map. 21 is a pretty straightforward escape mission, but that entire chapter felt like a horror movie in the BEST way possible and the dragon veins contributed to that. Worst use of Dragon Veins, IMO is in Birthright Chapter 14. They're just HANDING you the victory with the Dragon Veins there and it's completely unnecessary.
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:14 am
I'm not that far in 14, but thus far, Dragon Veins are one of the several changes brought up that's really made it a lot of fun to play and given me something new to think about. It's nice to have new challenges. I'm lookin' forward to seeing how they're used as I move through the games.
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:25 pm
Manic Martini Worst use of Dragon Veins, IMO is in Birthright Chapter 14. They're just HANDING you the victory with the Dragon Veins there and it's completely unnecessary. Have to agree with you that having not one but three Dragon Veins in that chapter does hand out an easy victory to you. It does take out the challenge out. However, if leveling up characters as well as trying to get support, it's not. I've lost count how many times (I think six?) I reset my chapter because my characters have low HP as well as being pre-promoted against the promoted units.
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